Hello;
    Since someone brought the topic of racism I thought I will ask some
of you this questions!!!!!  How will you feel is your son/daughter
decides to marry or just going steady with someone of a different race,
culture, background????!!!!!!
    I'm asking you this because my girlfriend is Hungarian's heriatge.
She was born here in the US.  However, her parents sent her to the
Hungarian Scout to find "hopefully" the perfect Hungarian match...
Now, how you guys can talk about democracy, social freedom and personal
choice if someone is been influenced so much about something as
rational and personal as love.  Yes, indeed there is such word between
races.  If you think it's wrong to interract in such intermate
relationship with a different races.  I will appreciate it if you
can tell me why?  I'm willing to listen to anyone view on this!
Who wants to go on first??!
Regards;
Ken

As far as Horn's utterances on foreign policy is concerned, Zoli thinks that
I am drawing far-reaching conclusions on the basis of "one," most likely
inaccurate report by VoA, and he counters me by quoting a January interview
with Horn by a correspondent of *Hospodarsky noviny.* First of all, I am not
basing my conclusions on one report but at least three. Of course, these
reports can be indeed inaccurate. In actual fact, Horn never said "that he
himself has doubts about Hungarian association with NATO" but said exactly
the opposite and the correspondent simply lied. Or, giving more credit to the
VoA correspondent, Stefan Bos, he misunderstood what Horn said. I have no
idea which language was used during this interview but let's say it was
conducted in English and perhaps Horn's English was not clear. Or, if it was
conducted in Hungarian, the interpreter didn't do a good job. In any case, it
was just a huge misunderstanding and Horn's accurate sentiments are expressed
in that January *Hospodarsky noviny* interview.

Or, Horn said all these contradictory things and he meant them all. In that
case, he either has a very confused mind (which I am sure is not the case),
or he has some reason to give out mixed signals. Perhaps the reason is that
the MSZP leadership is split on the issue, and Horn is trying to give answers
to journalists which don't offend certain members his party. In fact, another
VoA report talks about this briefly: "Mr. Horn did  not  speak about
Hungary's application for membership in NATO, and only mentioned the need for
closer ties with NATO.  Within the Hungarian Socialist Party, some people are

pushing for a national referendum to be held on the issue." The emphasis is
on "some people."

As for Hungary's neutrality. Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly. If
Hungary doesn't belong to a bloc, the country might be called nonaligned. I
don't think that nonalignment with NATO, on one side, and a very uncertain
future in Russia and Ukraine, on the other, is a viable or wise option. The
idea of neutrality has had a very strong influence on the Hungarian mind ever
since 1956 but just because the majority of the population might think
neutrality an attractive option, it doesn't mean that it is a good choice.
And his is where the education of the public comes into the picture.

Finally, I know how tenacious Zoli can be, and therefore I hope he will turn
his analytical gaze away from foreign affairs and toward internal Hungarian
politics. There is, for example, the latest media affair. He can always
engage in a debate with Andras Kornai and Gabor Fencsik about Horn's role in
appointing the new media chiefs. Eva Balogh

Thanks for your friendly reply, but I do not undrstand a few things:

> beings seem to improve only when they are well off.

What is an improved human being? Who was well off? You don't mean, that
the rich ones will behave better?


>  in some man's heart when things become worse. And since the there will be
 more
>  people
>  fighting for the same goods, it only will get worse.

I hope someone has the statistics handy, but I gather that there is
more food/head of population produced in the world now than before. The
problem is the system.


>  homogenous group is better off during hard times, then a mixed group, just
>  because
>  the fault in human nature.

Example, please.

>
> Ps: True captalism is heartless, socialism is not built on human nature. In
 its
> pure form neither is good, both are static. (On paper socialism looks better)
>
 The optimum system is in between, dynamic, and should be changed according to
>  the
> external circumstances. Since the correct control is usually not known,
>  therefore
> the system very often is in fault.
>

I agree, there are no pure things, but there are criteria by which
to define them. If the main wealth producing is under democratic and
cooperative control, that's socialism - as yet not practised and I
think the only way to control environment etc, to avoid chaos in society
as well as in nature. And of course more versatile and reactive...Eva Durant

>
> Democratic impulses in Hungary have not been terribly strong historically and
> the last forty years made them practically nonexistent. One needs schooling
> in democratic principles which for somebody not immersed in it may find
> baffling at first. I found that many of my Hungarian acquaintances didn't
> have much idea about the principles of democracy as practiced, for example,
> in the United States. If this is true about the population as a whole, it is
> even more so with the former ruling elite, from whose ranks, after all, Horn
> comes from. Eva Balogh

Yes, I am baffled, too. Is it true, that 60% or less of those eligible
feel it worthwhile to register their vote, so governments are regularily
elected by circa 30% of voters? Eva Durant

In reply to your message of "Mon, 25 Jul 94 15: 22:33 PDT."
             >
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 18:37:49 -0700
From: 

Will no one, (except ZF in ZF vs EB), say anything in defence of the new PM?

--Greg

To Sandor Lengyel:

I think one should clarify what one means by "well off." The average Hungarian
was not "well off" during the communist era, yet there was a certain measure of
economic security which, combined with political repression, kept a lid on
public expressions of racism. Some may argue that the latter reason was the
stronger, but I would not discount the former. In other words, I believe that
it is economic anxiety that fuels social tension. After all, throughout history
when racial/cultural/religious tensions exploded, the actions of the mob were
almost always directed from above, by those who sought to gain by pumping up
divisions between people.
    Unfortunately, Sandor, in your comments regarding the faults of human
nature and the relative advantages of homogenous societies, you indirectly
make the case for socialist-style systems that cut across cultures; that is,
if human beings are forever doomed to repeat their greatest disasters, then
perhaps some would prefer living under a system that simply forbids racism.
In Hungary, as in some other parts of the East Bloc, even an artificial lid
seemed preferable to no lid at all.

Regards, Marc Nasdor

I'll go first, Ken. I'm a non-Hungarian Jewish American. I married the daughter
of the Calvinist minister of Papa, Hungary. Maybe he's rolling over in his
grave, maybe not. Who gives a ----? We definitely have our cultural differences
but we try to work them out, and we're raising our beautiful son to know both
Hungarian and American cultures, and to a small extent, the religious back-
grounds of his parents, who do not practice. We send him to a Quaker school
because of its ethical underpinnings.
   It's not always an easy ride, marrying out of one's culture, but one has to
look to the future which, on balance is much more significant than the past.

Regards, Marc

OK, this thread is going too far! I'm going to up the ante.

Anybody who can come up with the e-mail addresses of senior officals of the
governing, or even opposition, parties will receive a one-pound box of
Aniko's mouth-watering pogacsa!

The race is on!

Marc

Zoli--

I say that CEO's and other VIPs should not only receive even MORE e-mail, they
should be forced to feed on the same kinds of coercive advertising they palm
off on us!

Marc