Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX KORNYESZ 442
Copyright (C) HIX
1997-11-24
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Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Temakor: Napenergia (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
2 Viz eneriaja... (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
3 Atom, viz es CO2 (mind)  39 sor     (cikkei)
4 allas (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
5 meadows-rovat (mind)  120 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Temakor: Napenergia (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Sziasztok!

> Segitseget kerek napenergia (elsosorban hoenergia) hasznositasara.
> Keresek olyan helyeket a halon ahol errol bovebben lehetne olvasni,
> vagy esetleg szamitasokat is vegezni, tovabba termekek, vagy
> forgalmazok fellelesi helye is erdekelne.
Ez a tema engem is erdekel! Ha valaki tud informaciot, itt a KORNYESZen
kozolje.
A szabadenergia mint a nullponti energia kicsatolasa regota
foglalkoztat. A kialakult kis Internetes "kutatocsoportunkhoz" keresek
tamogatast. Szivesen elfogadunk tovabbi informaciokat is.

Udv.: Ja'nos Tolna'ro'l!
>>Az ero" velunk van, az igazsa'g meg odaa't!<<
+ - Viz eneriaja... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Egy nehany szammal elozo cikkhez a Duna kapcsan:

Attol tartok, tevedes azt hinni, hogy ha a Duna Nagymarosnal is folyik,
akkor feljebb levo eromu nem vesz ki energiat: az energia megmaradas elve
igaz!

A vizieromuvek a helyzeti energiat hasznaljak fel (magasrol lezudulo viz
hajtja a turbinakat.) Eromu nelkul ez az energia mashova jut:
  - gyorsabban folyik a Duna ?
  - talajvizre mas a hatasa? (Pl. Dunantulon mozgatja a talajvizrendszert?)

Szoval ez is termeszeti energia, ezen is osztozni kellene...
Persze ki mire hasznalja?

Lantos Peter
+ - Atom, viz es CO2 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Atom:
Wolf Gyurival - nem eloszor - teljesen egyet kell ertenem: a teljes 
uzemanyag ciklust tekintve az atomeromuvek embereletben mert 
kockazata sokkal (egyes esetekben nagysagrendekkel) kisebb, mint a 
hagyomanyos tuzeloanyagu eromuveke. Ez eleg regota ismert, csak nem
mindenki ismeri el. 
Egy 10 evvel ezelotti disszertacioban (szerenysegem tiltja, hogy a 
szerzojet megnevezzem) mar szerepel egy varos kozepere helyezett olaj-
gaz tuzelesu es egy nuklearis futomu osszehasonlitasa. Ugyancsak 
embereletben merve a hagyomanyos futomu kockazata 4 (!) 
nagysagrenddel nagyobb. (megj.: ez nem eredmeny, csak alkalmazasi 
pelda volt es eppen a banyaszatot nem vette figyelembe)

Ehhez kapcsolodoan:
Uveghaz. Radics Robi jo szandekat nem vitatva, nem tartom 
celszerunek, sot, lehetsegesnek sem az altala javasolt fejkvota 
rendszert (pl. 115 kg/fo/ev CO2 kibocsatatas engedelyezeset). Nem 
azonos a kulonbozo orszagok helyzete, az egyikben sokat kell futeni 
(pl. Skandinavia), a masikban esetleg semmit, de talan meg 
legkondicionalni sem kell (pl. Kanari szk.). Kulonbozo lehet a 
vizenergia rendelkezesre allasa (pl. Norvegia<-->Hollandia). Persze a 
jelenlegi szint befagyasztasat, vagy aranyos csokkenteset sem tartom 
jonak. AZ pont azt az igazsagtalansagot konzervalna, ami nem jo. 
Talan a kibocsatasi jogok kereskedelme? Amikor a kezdeti kvotakban 
reszben a status quo, reszben az adottsagok, reszben a fejkvota 
rendszer jelenhetne meg?

Vizenergia:
Akar az uveghazhatasrol is eszembe juthatott volna, mint igen hatasos 
eszkoz a CO2 ellen, de nem arrol jutot eszembe. Kiegesziteskent 
Nlaca_laca velemenyehez:
Nagy leptekkel menetelunk "Europa fele", persze nemi kepzavarral. 
Ekozben varjuk a Duna-Rajna-Majna csatornara 100 milliardokat (ez nem 
koltoi tulzas es DEM-ben ertendo) fordito Europa (=NSzK) 
egyutterzeset, netan segitseget egy olyan ugyben, amellyel kb. 3/4-
ere csokkentettuk a viziut hasznalhatosagat (atlagosan evi 3 honapig 
nem hajozhato a Duna Domosnel). Realis ez? 

Udvozlettel         Gacs Ivan
+ - allas (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

The Biotechnology College of the Portuguese Catholic University is 
seeking job applicants for a full time professorship position in the 
environment area. A completed PhD in environmental 
sciences/engineering or related area is a minimum requirement. 
Interested candidates must submit their full curriculum before 
December 15th, 1997 (see address below). No discrimination made based 
on age, nationality, sex, religion, etc.

Sincerely,
Margarida Carvalho e Silva               
Escola Superior de Biotecnologia         Universidade Catolica Portuguesa
Rua Dr. Antonio Bernardino de Almeida    Tel: 351/2/558 0048
P-4200 PORTO     PORTUGAL                Fax: 351/2/590 351
___________________________________________________________________

PLEASE CIRCULATE UNTIL DECEMBER 15TH, 1997, AND EXCUSE CROSSPOSTS. THANKS.
+ - meadows-rovat (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

TRADE ON THE FAST TRACK -- WHAT'S THE HURRY?
> 
> There were plenty of bad reasons why Congress turned down President Clinton's
> "fast track" trade bill -- the normal "do anything to humiliate Clinton" stuf
f,
> payoffs from protectionists and labor, isolationists who fear trade because
> they fear the world.
> 
> But there were good reasons, too, strengthened by the fact that NAFTA, the fr
ee
> trade agreement with Mexico, has failed to fulfill the grandiose promises mad
e
> for it on either side of the border.  Since NAFTA Americans are beginning to
> hear the pro-trade drumbeat -- globalization is inevitable, we'll be left in
> the competitive dust, trade grows the economy, trade creates jobs -- as so mu
ch
> bunkum.
> 
> To start with, trade just doesn't look like a problem to the average American
 .
> We already get apples from Chile and cars from Japan.  We send corn to Africa
,
> jets to the Middle East.  Our computers and sneakers travel to Asia before th
ey
> reach us.  Our music and movies play all over the globe.  What more do we nee
d?
> 
> If there's any trade problem we've heard about, it's the Nike story, the Asia
n
> workers paid a pittance for long hours of stifling work putting together shoe
s
> that inexplicably cost us $100 a pair.  And we know about the maquiladoras, t
he
> shiny new factories on the Mexican side of the border, built by Sony, Black &
> Decker, GM, Ford, which pay not $5 an hour, but $5 a DAY, and which pour out
> toxic brews that would never be permitted if the pipes and smokestacks were
> just a few miles north.
> 
> Those factories are becoming the symbol of free trade.  People whose minds ar
e
> not trapped in business logic take one look at them and sense something wrong
 .
> Those who look more closely -- including the labor and environment advocates
> who bombarded Congress to defeat "fast track" -- see them as evidence of a
> systemic perversity, which they call "race to the bottom."  Far from being an
> economic boon, they argue, "free trade" as currently structured will bring
> economic ruin, especially to the nations that currently enjoy high social and
> environmental standards.
> 
> Economists, trained at an early age to chant "trade is always, always, always
> good," can't seem to see this perversity, but anyone else can.  If a company
> finds a place where it is not taxed to support schools or sewage treatment,
> where it can dump any kind of gunk without penalty, where desperate people wi
ll
> work for peanuts, it will go there.  If it doesn't, its competitors will.
> That's the market's inevitable tendency to reward those who put costs off ont
o
> someone else -- in this case onto workers, families, communities, and the
> environment.
> 
> A nation can put those costs back where they belong by requiring business to
> pay decent wages, keep workplaces safe, support local infrastructure, and cle
an
> up its messes.  That helps not only the society, but the market itself, by
> forcing prices to include very real costs.  But the nation can't then allow
> imports of cheap products, undermining the companies that comply with the
> rules.  It has to ban those products or put tariffs on them.  The "free trade
"
> the world is hurtling toward, the kind that Bill Clinton is promoting,
> undercuts our ability to do exactly that.
> 
> Under the new trade regime, Venezuela and Brazil have challenged part of the
> U.S. Clean Air Act that forbids the import of more-polluting gasoline mixture
s
> from their refineries.  The U.S. is contesting Europe's ban on beef fed
> artificial hormones.  Numerous countries object to the U.S. requirement that
> shrimp be caught in nets that do not destroy endangered sea turtles.
> Meanwhile, in any kind of business that can move, American workers are losing
> jobs and communities losing companies.
> 
> That's just the start of the race to the bottom.
> 
> So far Bill Clinton has addressed this major problem with minor gestures.  To
> get NAFTA passed he created a North American Development Bank to clean up the
> border.  At the moment it has $450 million, with a promise of maybe $3 billio
n
> someday.  That sounds like a lot unless you know that a sewage treatment plan
t
> for just one Mexican town (Naco, Sonora, just across the border from Naco,
> Arizona) will cost $830 million.  The region needs at least $8 billion for
> drinking water, sewage treatment, and garbage pickup for all its residents.
> Providing it through the NADB or any other public handout means that U.S. and
> Mexican taxpayers must cover what ought to come from property taxes on
> maquiladoras.
> 
> It's no wonder that taxpayers, workers, and environmentalists are beginning t
o
> equate fast track with pulling a fast one.  The knee-jerk response of
> economists, politicians and companies is to call such people protectionists.
> They are, but not in the sense that they are trying to protect special
> privileges (though that happens in the debate as well).  The abiding critics 
of
> fast track are trying to protect the society, the environment, and therefore
> the economy, which cannot function without clean air, clean water, public
> infrastructure, operational communities, secure families, and educated
> children.
> 
> There are plenty of protectionist barriers that ought to be weeded out of the
> global trade regime.  But not at the cost of a race to the bottom.  Trade is
> not always, always, always good.  There are ways of enhancing its good while
> preserving the public welfare and the ability of market prices to tell the
> whole truth.  The mindless abolition of any regulation that any industry in a
ny
> country finds annoying is not one of them.
> 
> If Bill Clinton learns anything from his present humiliation, let's hope he
> learns that.
> 
> (Donella H. Meadows is an adjunct professor of environmental studies at
> Dartmouth College.)

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