Well, let me put my two cents' worth in on the medical care issue in Hungary.
Put it that way, one reason I would not consider retiring in Hungary is
because of health care. Just when I may need medical attention I would be
living in a country where health care is simply not adequate. Although I have
doctors on both sides of my family and therefore I would be in a relatively
good position as far as attention is concerned, I would still be petrified!

A cousin of mine in his early forties had a stroke on one Sunday morning. His
wife is a doctor. They happened to be visiting his parents' place in
Hosszuheteny, which is only about 20 kms from Pecs. Although his parents have
been trying to get a telephone for years, they were unable to get one until a
couple of months ago. At the time there was no telephone in the house. To
make a long story short it took the ambulance two hours to get there and as
any semi-informed layman knows, time is of essence in case of stroke. Poor
Gyurka is now disabled, has difficulty talking, drags his leg, and so on and
so forth.

To have a cataracts operation is a big deal--days in the hospital and the
results are not always great. I noticed that one of my young relative's teeth
were terribly crooked and crowded. I inquired why they didn't do something
about it when she was a child. Oh, yes, they did--but this was the result!

Years ago, a high school classmate of mine's husband, 27 years old at the
time, needed a routine operation. His bed was in the hospital corridor--which
is bad enough, but that he died as a result of complications from surgery is
really unforgivable. I happened to be talking to a friend of mine (a surgeon)
about the case--oh, yes, everybody knew in town that it was malpractice. But,
of course, there is no such thing as malpractice in Hungary.

Last but not least I received a letter from a first cousin of mine (husband
is a doctor) a few days ago. She happened to mention that a half-cousin of my
mother just died. The story was told as follows: "On October 20th, in the
evening, Joska died. He was 74. During the summer they examined him several
times in the hospital but they couldn't find any explanation for his lack of
appetite and rapid weight loss. Two days before his death we went to see him,
because his daughter Marta asked us to determine whether he should be taken
to the hospital or not. Joska was very reluctant to go to the hospital and
since the results of the summer exams were not bad, we suggested he should
stay at home because, after all, home care cannot be secured in a hospital.
He must have had some kind of cancer after all, causing his rapid decline.
His burial will take place on November 8."

Well, when doctors are unable to diagnose cancer we are in trouble. No wonder
that the average life expectancy is awfully low in Hungary.

Eva Balogh

In article >,
Joe Pannon  > wrote:
>Stefan wrote:
>
>> Please don't talk about things you know nothing about. I have a lot of
>> relatives in Hungary, and many of them have spent time in hungarian
>> hospitals. There is nothing wrong with the way they handle people there.
>
>Oh don't give me this BS, Stefan!  How do YOU know anything about it?  You
>think I would badmouth them if it wasn't so?  Your relatives were probably
>luckier than mine, or gave more up-front bribe money to the hospital
>personnel perhaps.

That might be, but I think you are beeing very unfair. There are ofcourse
"good" and "bad" hospitals in Hungary, but to say that you have to BRIBE
the personnel to get good care is pure BS. My mother trained and worked
as a nurse in Hungary (back in the old days, before 1978) and there was
NOTHING like that going on, at least not the hospital she worked at. But I'm
not saying that this isn't possible, but please don't tell people that the
only way to get cared for is by bribeing the staff, some of us still have
some faith in humanity...

/stefan

< - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >
 Stefan Gimeson     UNet:    | Let's build a nightmare-nation
 Tunavagen 39 B660         | learn and work as never yet !
 S-223 63 Lund     Voice: (0)46-394280      / \         (XTCIZNRJ4U)
 Sweden  (http://www.df.lth.se/~dr_dream/) /   \    *Everything must GO!*
< - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >

I wish to take exception to Andras Kornai's comment on the recent elections.
He ventured "that anybody who can see Newt Gingrich as a part of a happy
experience needs their head examined".
Such remark not only reveals a great degree of intolerance toward the political
conviction of others, but examplifies the condescending attitude of liberals
who assume that anybody who does not agree with them requires the services
of a psychiatrist. If that were true, it would certainly create a boom for
psychiatrists as the majority of the American citizens who cared to vote,chose
a Republican candidate,knowing that they indirectly voted for the future
Speaker of the House.

On Sun, 20 Nov 1994, Martin Balo wrote:

> Zoli ) wrote:
>
> : ODIN Kft. is the only commercial Internet access provider in Budapest.
> : They have full Internet access SLIP or host for 3200 Ft/month.
>
> Do you have any personal experience with ODIN Kft. ?
Not with their service, but I have several time talked with the owner,
and he sems to be a very flexible, good-to-do-business-with person.
I am sure that if you send him an email you can expect an answer within a
day, possibly even within hours.

> Also, what is the current dollar/forint exchange rate ?
>
I think it is at around 109Ft/1 USD

Zoli )

Damir Matanic was looking for a source for Hungarian characters under
Windows.  According to an article on TIPP  a few days ago,
the  bme-tel.ttt.bme.hu (152.66.79.162) anonymous ftp site, in the
/pub/income/hun_ttf.zip file, holds H-Arial, H-Courier, H-Times
New Roman founts (Regular, Bold, Italic, Bold Italic).  These are
to be installed as any other Windows fount.

George Antony

On Sun, 20 Nov 1994, Stefan Gimeson wrote:

> In article >,

> That might be, but I think you are beeing very unfair. There are ofcourse
> "good" and "bad" hospitals in Hungary, but to say that you have to BRIBE
> the personnel to get good care is pure BS. My mother trained and worked
> as a nurse in Hungary (back in the old days, before 1978) and there was
> NOTHING like that going on, at least not the hospital she worked at. But I'm
> not saying that this isn't possible, but please don't tell people that the
> only way to get cared for is by bribeing the staff, some of us still have
> some faith in humanity...
>
> /stefan
>
> < - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>  Stefan Gimeson     UNet:    | Let's build a nightmare-nation
>  Tunavagen 39 B660         | learn and work as never yet !
>  S-223 63 Lund     Voice: (0)46-394280      / \         (XTCIZNRJ4U)
>  Sweden  (http://www.df.lth.se/~dr_dream/) /   \    *Everything must GO!*
> < - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>

Let me add my two cents.  I completely agree with Stefan.  I don't know
how many years people on this list spent in Hungary and whether they have
ANY personal experiences, but I was grown up there and only spent the
past two years here in the USA>  I have NEVER! paid off a doctor for any
services they practiced on me.  I have had two operations, and was in a
hospital because of asthma for 2 weeks, so I have some experience.  My
father has gone through several operations, including two open heart
operations, and tudoembolia, agyembolia (I am sorry I only know these words
in Hungarian). I could go on about experiences of my relatives and
others close to me but itreally doesnj't make much sense.  I could only
say limited negative experiences.  Everybody I know, including myself, my
father have always been treated very well.  Hungarian doctors are, I
think,excellent doctors, but facilities are admittedly lower quality than
in most of the west.  However, connsidering the low budgets hospitals in
Hungary have to deal with, I think they are doing remarkably well.

After reading this list for a while now I start to wonder whether Joe and
others have ever had positive things to say about anything, including
Hungary.  Why do we always have to trash this country and why don't we
sometimes look at its positive things for a change?


Zoli )

Tom Sulyok wrote:
>Sometimes I wish non-Hungarians would refrain from writing in this
>newsgroup.

Would you care to define "Hungarian" so that potential contributors
to this list can know if you welcome their contributions or not.

George Antony

> not saying that this isn't possible, but please don't tell people that the
> only way to get cared for is by bribeing the staff, some of us still have
> some faith in humanity...

Good for you, Stefan!

Joe

I just knew that Zoli would soon come with an opposing opinion! ;-)

> Let me add my two cents.  I completely agree with Stefan.  I don't know
> how many years people on this list spent in Hungary and whether they have
> ANY personal experiences, but I was grown up there and only spent the
> past two years here in the USA>  I have NEVER! paid off a doctor for any
> services they practiced on me.  I have had two operations, and was in a
> hospital because of asthma for 2 weeks, so I have some experience.  My
> father has gone through several operations, including two open heart
> operations, and tudoembolia, agyembolia (I am sorry I only know these words
> in Hungarian). I could go on about experiences of my relatives and
> others close to me but itreally doesnj't make much sense.  I could only
> say limited negative experiences.  Everybody I know, including myself, my
> father have always been treated very well.

Zoli, what you forgot to mention was whether your dad or someone in your
family was a Very Important Person.  That could make a difference, you
know.  Besides, I don't recall that any of us said that ALL hospitals
were bad all the time.  From what several of us related here was that
there was enough of it to be concerned.  I, too, know of good stories,
but far more bad ones, unfortunately.

Joe

There is a good possibility that I will be teaching at the Kossuth Lajos
University in Debrecen for 3 months this coming spring.  I will be teaching,
in English, courses on U.S. politcs and government, West European politics and
government, and probably contemporary Russian politics and government.

Although the classes will be conducted in English, to advanced English-speaking
Hungarian students, and although I am attempting to assemble some reasonable
readings lists of English-language sources, it would be helpful to me and, I
suspect, my students, to have access to up-to-date Hungarian books or articles
dealing, however generally, with the politics and governments of the countries
mentioned.

Therefore I would appreciate any references to Hungarian-language sources on
American, West European, or Russian politics and government, broadly defined,
that anybody on the list can supply, the sooner the better.

If you think this stuff is too arcane to disseminate to the entire list, you
may certainly reply to me directly at


Elo3re nagyon sze1pen ko2szo2no2m az esetleges segitse1get!

Udv.,
Be1la