Victor:

> I did not follow the net's discussion on the results of recent U.S. elections
.
> Please forgive me if I repeat already stated views.  A recent NPR (National
> Public Radio) program discussed the budget cuts being considered by the new
> Republican majority in Congress. The cuts would include the budgets of Public
> Radio and Television, the National Endowment for the Arts, the National
> Endowment for the Humanities, and U.S. aid to Eastern Europe and to the
> successor states of the former Soviet Union.

That's unfortunate, but every cut has sone clientile no matter where it
is.  As to the aid to Eastern Europe, that's not much, anyway.
Especially not for Hungary.  Cutting it won't be noticed there.
Besides, it will probably not be be saved to the US taxpayer in any case
case, because this administration already committed a lot of funds
buying peace in the Middle East and several other places (like Haiti).

> Please note, these are the views of Republican politicians who are interested
> in budgetary matters.  Senator Jesse Helms, who is the front runner for the
> chairmanship of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, was not quoted in the
> above NPR program.

I doubt Helms can even pronounce "Hungary", not to mention where it is.

Regards,
Joe

Zoli wrote:

> Well, Joe, I did not forget to mention that because my dad is only a Very
> Important Person to me and my family but hardly to "the country".  He is
> just an average engineer, never been member of the communist party.

Well, the way you talk, who would have guessed that?
Anyway, I guess he was one of the lucky ones.  The problem is, that most
people are assigned to a given hospital (at least that's how it's been
in my home area), and if that hospital happens to be one of the good
ones (under good management), one would consistently get good feedback
in that area.  If you belong to a bad one, the opposite would be
happening.  That could explain some of the contradictory reports.  But
if we hear about bad experiences from places so distant from each other
as here were reported, there most be more of them as you think.

> No, but it was suggested several times that you can only get quality
> service from a Hungarian doctor or nurse if you bribe them.  Well, I
> think it is utterly untrue.

The situation is such, that because a patient cannot know ahead of time,
whether bribe will be expected or not, they have to be prepared to have
that bribe money available.  BTW, you may recall that almost two years ago
I myself reported in HIX TIPP forum a pleasant hospital experience of a
close relative of mine who had a successful eye surgery performed on
her.  I reported it exactly because even my relatives were surprised
that such things happen and gratuity is refused.  I submit things like
that should not cause a surprise.  It should be the norm.

Granted, the regular salary physicians and other health care
professionals get is low, but they should get it from their employer,
not their patients who pay plenty in helth insurance deductions.

Joe

Dear Sophie,

I found the address of the Budapest Stock Exchange:

H-1052 Budapest
Deak Ferenc utca 5
phone 118-1200

Unfortunately, I did not find a fax- and e-mail number

Greetings,


Herman Hoen

Andras Kornai showed once again his mestery in sophistry when answering
 regarding Newt Gingrich.  Just one of his perls:

> In Hungary, a
> significant portion of the electorate voted for the Socialists in spite of
> Gyula Horn, but if we were to accept your logic, the Hungarian electorate
> endorsed padded coats and reckless driving out of political convictions.

The proper parallel would be to say that Hungarians voted in the
Socialists knowing full well that in good likelyhood they also voted in
Gyula Horn as the future P.M.  Period.  I doubt they would have still voted
for the Socialists if they had thought that it would mean the return of an
army of padded coats with it.  If there was one concensus in Hungary
before the election, it was that w/o the old Big Brother, there was no
chance for the old style communist regime to return.  Had they thought
otherwise, they would not have voted for Horn's party.  Nor would the
American voters for Republicans if they thought that there was an army
of KKK types coming into power with Newt Gingrich.

BTW, in connection with Newt, we see the typical liberal smear operation
at work: calling him all kinds of names, but mentioning very little
factual information just what it is he stands for that they are so
opposed to.  I suppose it comes down to the same thing they like to hate
Rush Limbaugh so much for: both of these guys are too articulate and too
effective in debunking their arguments and myths and they just can't
stand it.

Joe

I'm working on a website that is intended to be a lingustic reference
work.  Mostly what I want to do at the moment is collect audio samples of
language. If someone could send an audio file of a sample of spoken
Hungarian, it would be wonderful. Please include a transcription in
Hugarian, and a translation in English if at all possible. If you can
transcribe it into the IPA as well, so much the better....! Any
information on the language- how it fits into language families, how many
people speak it, dialects, etc., would help as well


here's the blurb:
The Universal Survey of Languages is envisioned as a major collaborative
effort with the goal of creating a linguistic reference for the layman
and linguist alike. The USL contains audio files of spoken language and
descriptions of morphology and phonology of the world's languages, as
well as a hypertext introduction to linguistics, an introduction and
reference to the International Phonetic Alphabet, a linguistic dictionary
and information on language families. This is very much a work in
progess, and all are invited to contribute and debate the course of
evolution for the project.

http://www.teleport.com/~napoleon


thanks for listening...

George Dick

In article >,  > wrote:
>Stefan Gimeson objects to the word "bribery" in connection with medical care
>in Hungary. Well, let's call it by its "official" name, "ha'lape'nz" (money
>of gratitude). By the way, the Hungarian dictionary is bashful about the term
>"ha1lape1nz", the editors left it out of the Hungarian vocabulary, but
>believe me it does exist.

(very long and informative article deleted)

Well, personally I have never heard of "ha'lape'nz", but if you say so...
Once again: I'm not saying that this doesn't happend (bribes), but I still
feel that saying you HAVE TO pay doctors/nurses etc to get cared for is
just wrong.

/stefan

< - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >
 Stefan Gimeson     UNet:    | Let's build a nightmare-nation
 Tunavagen 39 B660         | learn and work as never yet !
 S-223 63 Lund     Voice: (0)46-394280      / \         (XTCIZNRJ4U)
 Sweden  (http://www.df.lth.se/~dr_dream/) /   \    *Everything must GO!*
< - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >

when there is a dispute about the meaning of
an english word, it is my custom to consult an
english dictionary, as i had been taught to do
in primary school by mr williams.

we were ten-year-olds when he taught us how
to use a dictionary.

maybe some of the contributors would have been
well served to have received instruction from mr
williams.

1. words in the reference section of an english language
dictionary are listed in lexicographic order, that is,
given two words, if the first letter from the left
in the correct spelling of one of the words which is not the
same as the corresponding letter of other word
precedes the latter letter in the alphabet, then the former
word precedes the latter word in the lexicographic
order.

2. homophones are listed together, with separate definitions
and etymologies  --- mr williams used such words ensure
that we gained practical exerience in the art of using lexica.
he said it was important to extend one's vocabulary if one
wishes to be able to express one's thoughts and ideas
as accurately as possible, which is the purpose of language.

3. some words have several meanings and a dictionary will
list these.

4. dictionaries come in a variety of sizes, with the result
that not all dictionaries are equally complete. obviously
the more comprehensive a dictionary, the more voluminous
it will be. when in doubt, consult the compolete oxford, was
his advice, since it is the most comprehensive english
language dictionary.


the case under discussion is the word "jew". if i recall
correctly it was w. batkay who initiated the discussion
by claiming that the word "jew" is used as a term of
opprobrium. (note a sublety of language here: he did
*not* claim that the word "jew" is used *exclusively*
opprbriously. in english, one would require an
adverb qualifying the verb of that noun clause to
indicate such semantic intent)

p. gelencser rejected this claim, posting the counter-
claim that "jew" just referred to a particular group
of people: an ethnic and/or religious and/or historic
description.

the forum being a public one, i intervened by quoting
those parts of the entry in the shorter oxford dictionary
which showed that w.batkay's claim is, in fact, correct,
there being even a verb "to jew" listed.

p. gelencser responded by quoting from another dictionary
to confirm the fact --- which was never under dispute ----
that the word "jew" refers to a particular group of people.
his quote from the dictionary made no mention of of
the pejorative use of the word "jew".

at first glance it might seem like a difference between
english and american usage. but my experience in
columbus, ohio in the january/february 1986 would
indicate otherwise. (i presume i do not need to refer
to rand mcnally to substantiate the claim that columbus,
ohio is, in fact, in the united states of america.)
i was in a doughnut-bar late one night when a customer
entered. he seemed to have had an evening of intemperate
indulgence behind him and took out some coins and
placed them on the counter. he ordered some things and
asked the girl behind the counter to count out his money,
which she duly did. he seemed to enjoy the service and
attention he received, for he stayed and ordered more.
when the girl behind the counter said that he was short
a dime, he said " don't be such a jew!" and argued that
since he had already spent so much money there, she should
be more generous. the girl, from whose neck there hung
a generously sized cross, took offence at this and told the
by now boisterous customer to "get out!" she seems to have
found the accusation offensive. he stormed out and she
complained to the remaining customers about the "nerve
of that creep!...calling me a jew!"

of course the word "jew" is not the only one which is
used both as the name of an ethnic group and as a less
than flattering term. in all the cases i know the
connection is that the members of the groups named
are purported to provide paradigm examples. thus
the words "gascon", "gypsy" and "vandal" are used
as terms of derogation as well.

as ever, at least since mr williams classes, i refer
the sceptical reader to an english language dictionary,
such as the shorter oxford dictionary.

d.a.

Julius Rezler wrote:

>I wish to take exception to Andras Kornai's comment on the recent elections.
>He ventured "that anybody who can see Newt Gingrich as a part of a happy
>experience needs their head examined".
>Such remark not only reveals a great degree of intolerance toward the politica
l
>conviction of others, but examplifies the condescending attitude of liberals
>who assume that anybody who does not agree with them requires the services
>of a psychiatrist. If that were true, it would certainly create a boom for
>psychiatrists as the majority of the American citizens who cared to vote,chose
>a Republican candidate,knowing that they indirectly voted for the future
>Speaker of the House.

Perhaps Mr. Rezzler is taking Andras' view a bit literally.  I too, sharing
my opinion of  the mental health establishment with Szilard and Illich,
might be insulted if my views were dismissed on such flimsy grounds.
However, living in Canada, I am not as familiar with Mr. Gingrich's
political opinions as I might be, but based on the soundbites from his
acceptance speech which CBC radio broadcast the night after the elections,
it seems to me that Mr. Gingrich is slightly right of Mr. Csurka on the
political spectrum.  Thus, I have a foreboding that the second civil war
among our neighbors to the south is not that far away.  What is more, I
always feel the same way as when I am confronted by an oximoron whenever I
hear a conservative plead for tolerance.

Tibor Benke

Sorry for posting in two groups, but evidently soc.culture.hungary
does not exist.

I'm looking for information on the following cities:

Veszprem, Austria-Hungary
Vesprememegye, Austria-Hungary
Gyulafiratot, Hungary
Ratot, Hungary

My grandfather's death certificate list's his place of birth
as Vesprememegye (1899);  and my grandmother's death certificated list
her place of birth as Veszprem (1878).  A search of the LDS records
(if I have the correct people) show their place of birth as Ratot.

Does anyone know the connection of the four cities, or localities?

As I will no longer have this account, please do not reply via
the news.  Please send e-mail to the address in the signature.  Thanks.

--
Ed Naratil                                 (All standard disclaimers apply)
                 Amateur Packet: .#epa.PA.USA

> Thus, I have a foreboding that the second civil war
> among our neighbors to the south is not that far away.

Oh, no, not at all.

If Americans come to feel that their system is a failure we
will probably take the same route Canadians are contemplating
for the same reason: dissolving the ties between
states/provinces.


Here is one of those ickey-poo soundbites you may've heard:

----
        I am a history teacher by background, and I would  assert
and defend on any campus in this country that it is impossible to
maintain civilization with twelve-year-olds having  babies,  with
fifteen-year-olds  killing  each  other, with seventeen-year-olds
dying  of  AIDS,  and  with  eighteen-year-olds  ending  up  with
diplomas  they  can't  even  read.  And  that what is at issue is
literally not Republican or Democrat or Liberal or  Conservative,
but the question of whether or not our civilization will survive.
----


--Greg

>Sorry for posting in two groups, but evidently soc.culture.hungary
>does not exist.

It is called - soc.culture.magyar

>Vesprememegye, Austria-Hungary
       ,
 Veszprem megye (megye=county) is in Central-Western Hungary

        ,                     ,                      ,
Gyulafiratot (town) and Veszprem (city) are in Veszprem County, Hungary

Greg quoting Gingrich:

>         I am a history teacher by background, and I would  assert
> and defend on any campus in this country that it is impossible to
> maintain civilization with twelve-year-olds having  babies,  with
> fifteen-year-olds  killing  each  other, with seventeen-year-olds
> dying  of  AIDS,  and  with  eighteen-year-olds  ending  up  with
> diplomas  they  can't  even  read.  And  that what is at issue is
> literally not Republican or Democrat or Liberal or  Conservative,
> but the question of whether or not our civilization will survive.

Gosh!  That is indeed to the right of Csurka!  How intolerant of Newt to
say those things instead of expressing his understanding of it as
-- no doubt -- Tibor Benke, the tolerant liberal would prefer. ;-)

Now, as to the supposed oxymoron of "tolerant conservative" ...
Just when was it last time a liberal speaker was prevented from speaking
on a campus by conservative students?  I seem to recall mostly the
opposite situation.

Joe