---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
      () wrote:
     >
     > wrote:
     >>     
     >>     NO DANUBIUS.
     >>     
     >>     YOUR NAME IS NOT JOE PANNON.
     >>     
     >>     YOUR NAME IS ION PANONESCU.
     >
     >Why would a Romanian want to claim me, a denounced "hater" of 
     >Romanians, as one of their own?  The natural inclination would be 
     >just the opposite; disavow such a person even if he really is one of 
     >them. A psychologist ought to have some explanation for this strange 
     >behavior.
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     and indeed, a psychologist has studied you, ION PANONESCU, quite 
     thoroughly.
     
     his name is non-other than the world-renowned magyar psychologist (and 
     member of the hungarian academy of sciences), Dr. Sigmund Frodos.
     
     Here is his diagnosis (along with the recommended treatment for ION 
     PANONESCU's peculiar type of personality disorder):
     
     [quote from my earlier conversation with Dr. Frodos]:
     
     >De-magyarization process 
     >
     >I think that a lighter note is needed in the discussion on "Origin of 
     >Magyars".
     > 
     >Since Joe Pannon seemed to have had great interest in this issue  
     >from the beginning of Daco-Roman continuity debate on scr and 
     >considering his Romanophobia, I have consulted good ol' Doktor  
     >Sigmund Frodos, the well known Hungarian psychologist.
     > 
     >He suggested that Joe might be suffering from a reverse bias brain  
     >pattern caused by his genetic characteristics inherited from his 
     >great-grandparents. The explanation for this phobia against Romanians 
     >must be the result of intense Magyarization that his Romanian 
     >forefathers went through. An overload condition inherited by Joe.  
     >The cure suggested was: rebaptization and language training.  
     >Let's start with the baptism.
     > 
     >We hereby baptize you : ION PANONESCU.  We wish you well and 
     >progress, ION !  
     >
     >One exercise the Doktor suggested was:  >Practise and repeat 1000 
     times.
     > 
     >Eu nu mai sunt maghiar !  ( Remember the verb to be ?)  >(I no longer 
     am magyar !)
     > 
     >Practise and repeat 1000 times
     > 
     >Eu sunt roman !
     >(you got it didn't you ?)
     > 
     >We will now practise for the benefit of everybody the second most 
     >fundamental verb: To HAVE - A avea (Latin as Cesar was)  
     >
     >Eu am
     >Tu ai
     >El are
     >Ea are
     >Noi avem
     >Voi aveti
     >Ei au
     > 
     >This is extra credit homework, just for Joe:  >Practise 1000 times : 
     > 
     >In Romanian : Eu am  o minte sanatoasa /  (Latin as Rome )            
     >              (I have a mind  healthy)
     > 
     > 
     >La Revedere       ION PANONESCU
     >(See you again)
     
     [end quote]
     
     ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
     >My hunch is that it's just another symptom of poor self-image by 
     >Romanians so often demonstrated by their irrational fears from a much 
     >smaller neighbor.
     >
     >Of course I would not want to exclude the possibility that this guy 
     >is a total idiot.  But I do wish to give him the benefit of doubt. 
     >Joe Pannon
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     as can be observed in the above quotation, ION PANONESCU also exhibits 
     the well known (and quite common) psychological trait of attributing 
     one's own deficiencies and limitations to one's subjectively-perceived 
     adversary......hence, a very predictable and desperate self-serving 
     act.
     
     but anyway.....
     
     In retrospect, ION PANONESCU seemed to have made significant progress 
     for a few months or so (from march until june), when his non-sensical 
     escapades on the net (and on scr in particular) dissapeared.
     
     however, as of late, his schizophrenic condition has re-occurred (as 
     the nature of his last postings show), and regrettably fueled by some 
     regular romanian, hungarian, and canadian "scr-ers" as well.
     
     consequently, Dr. Frodos will be contacted at once for a possible 
     elevation in the current level of ION PANONESCU's treatment.  electric 
     shock therapy as well as massive intakes of 
     "mamaliga-cu-brinza-si-usturoi" could be recommended on a daily basis.
     
     -cristian (Dr. Frodos' assistant)

Domagoj ) wrote:


: On Thu, 20 Jul 1995, Domagoj wrote:

:  
:  Firstly Mr Alec Cosic my parents are both Dalmatian but Croatian first.

[deleted, full version available in the original posting]

Fine and dandy Mr. Dalmatian.  Most of the text is respectable, true and 
appropriate.  However, from the standpoint of the Bosnian nation 
(original Bosnjak, a.k.a. Bosnian Muslim, not accurate) there are several 
questions to Dalmatians in regards to the 1990-1995 policy of the 
Croatian leadership in Zagreb.  One might assume that Dalmatians ARE 
mostly going along with it (although Mr. Sipe Mesic does have some 
honorable disagreement, that is not strong enough to prevail, as it seems 
....). 

#1.  Why did Franjo Tudjman murder several Croatian (!) commanders in 
1992, when they went to liberate Eastern Herzegovina ? One immediately 
thinks of General Blaz Kraljevic and several other patriots.  The answer 
is that Tudjman PREFERS Serbian vugar murderers of Vucurevic's ilk to 
control the entire territory from Peljesac to Prevlaka, rather than to 
have Bosnian Army, HOS and HVO control those territories, as could have 
been achieved when the Bosnian Armed forces and HOS, commanded by Gen. 
Kraljevic entered (!) Trebinje in the summer of 1992 !  Since Dubrovnik 
riviera is 30 feet "wide" at certain spots on a rocky mountain road above 
the sea, that means that Serb have 1/3 of Adriatic coast "by the balls".  
They can get drunk on any given day and flop mortar shells all over 
Dalmatian beaches to their endless whims and sadistic pleasures ! 

2.  Same control Serbs exert over mid-Dalmatia in the region of Sibenik 
and Zadar.  They have been bombarding Zadar during the past four years 
with careless abandon ...  There, also, Tudjman prefers to have Serbs 
control the coast, rather than participate in liberation of the Republic 
of Bosnia-Herzegovina ... etc. etc. 

In other words, Mr. Dalmatian, your leadership WISHES to have Serbs 
control dalmacia, more than it wishes to have Bosnian nation and the 
Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina survive this joint Serbo-Croatian 
murderous onslaught (1992-1995).  

How come, Mr. Dalmatian that you are so proud of your anti-fascist past, 
when you have a "certified" Nazi regime in Zagreb, along the lines of 
each and every South American junta ... almost ... not 100%, but almost 
there !  Tudjman enjoys 50% popularity in Croatia (Re: "Globus" weekly 
info), which is an enormous popularity for any leader, especially when 
one thinks about the fact that there are no even serious contenders.  
budisa is a lame duck, and he is doing actually nothing but keeping a 
"safe voting buffer zone" for Tudjman, in effect, really ...

Do you, Mr. Dalmatian possess a geographical map, and could you see what 
is going on ?  Thank you ...

IN defence of Bosnia ...

rap

I am searching for the descendants of the following families:

Istvan NAGY (wife: Erzsebet CZANKO), 
  Married 1850 (approx), DUNAVECSE, PEST county of HUNGARY
Mihaly TOTH (wife: Erzsebet BOZOKI), farm worker
  Married: 1851, NAGYKATA, PEST county of HUNGARY
Andras BOZOKI (wife Julia MAGOCS), farm worker
  Married 1872 in NAGYKATA, PEST county of HUNGARY
FLAMM, Tavern owner
  Lived in 1930's at DUNAFOLDVAR, TOLNA County of HUNGARY
Rezso ERDELY (wife: Terez RUSKA)
  Lived in the 1930's at BUDAPEST, HUNGARY
Bela ERDELY (wife: Borbala KISS)
  Lived in the 1930's at BUDAPEST, HUNGARY
Jeno IZSO  (wife: Julia ERDELY)
  Lived in the 1930's at BUDAPEST, HUNGARY
Miklos UZSAK (wife: Maria Engelhart)  
  Lived in the 1930's in HUNGARY
Sandor UZSAK (wife: Antonia Mayer)  
  Lived in the 1930's IN HUNGARY
Janos BELAK (wife: Julia BLAZSEK)
  Lived in the 1930's IN CHUZ, KOMARNO County SLOVAKIA
Janos HARIS (wife: Katalin KOVACS), taylor
  Lived in the 1910's at ERSEKUJVAR, HUNGARY (now: NOVE ZAMKY, SLOVAKIA)
Karoly KOVACS, Lock-smith
  Lived in the 1910's at ERSEKUJVAR, HUNGARY (now: NOVE ZAMKY, SLOVAKIA)
Gyula KOVACS, physician
  Lived in 1the 1910's at TARDOSKEDD, KOMAROM county of HUNGARY

If you  have any information about these families, please send me a 
note to:

Barna Bozoki >

In article > Liviu Iordache,
 writes:
>Hungarian historians have sometimes attempted to deny
>Hunyadi's Wallachian origin.

Serious historians never did it, only the Seton-Watson-like
'scientists' . For the 500th anniversary  of Matthias' death
several historical works, albums were published in Hungary.
I happen to have two works on my bookshelf because i bought
a thick one for myself , and later i got a very nice one as
xmas present. I have to tell you, both books thoroughly deal
with the fact that Matthias' family came from Wallachia.

>Hunyadi knew Wallachian and learned Italian as a young
>men when he spent some time in Milan in 1430s. Probably
>he understood Serbian and perhaps even Turkish.  However,
>Hunyadi did not know Latin,  as is indicated by the fact
>that his oath as regent had to be translated into
>Hungarian for him.

You left out a quite important language he  knew: Czech.

Tamás

****    Hungarian-American List      ***
        **** http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/ ***
        ****   mailto:   ***

SLOVAK FOREIGN MINISTER CRITICIZES ETHNIC HUNGARIAN LEADERS. Juraj
Schenk on 20 July accused the leaders of the three ethnic Hungarian
parties in Slovakia of deeply damaging the interests of the country,
Slovak media reported. He was reacting to remarks made by one of the
leaders, Laszlo Nagy, after the three returned from a visit to the U.S.
(see OMRI Daily Digest, 19 July 1995). Schenk accused them of
misrepresenting Slovak foreign policy and disparaging their homeland. He
said he will ask the mandate and immunity committee of the parliament to
consider their statements. -- Steve Kettle, OMRI, Inc.

ZEPA DOES NOT WANT SREBRENICA'S FATE. International media on 21 July
reported that the Bosnian Serb forces are in effective control of Zepa
but that local Bosnian army forces refuse to surrender and face what
appears to be certain death. The Serbs insist on classifying all Muslim
males between 18 and 55 as prisoners of war, and the men fear they will
be killed or, at best, sent to a concentration camp. When talks broke
down late in the afternoon of 20 July, the Serbs shelled the town. The
government troops responded by firing mortars at both the Serbs and the
79 Ukrainian peacekeepers, whom they blame for doing nothing to protect
the UN-designated "safe area." The Serbs meanwhile have brought up buses
to prepare for what the VOA called "the ethnic cleansing" of Zepa and
its 17,000 Muslims. BETA on 20 July reported that the U.S. has written
to the Bosnian Serbs asking them to allow international humanitarian
organizations access to Zepa. -- Patrick Moore, OMRI, Inc.

PRESSURE GROWS FOR ACTION IN BOSNIA. Bosnian Prime Minister Haris
Silajdzic told CNN on 20 July that "there is a time for words and a time
for action. . . . The time comes when babies are cut in half, young
girls raped and grown up people [are] numb with terror --that is a time
for men to act. This is the time to act in Bosnia or leave Bosnia
alone." The International Herald Tribune quoted U.S. Speaker of the
House Newt Gingrich as saying that "the notion of a small band of
barbarians directly taking on the civilized democracies and winning is a
threat to the survival of the security system and we should respond to
it with whatever level of coercion is ultimately required." The EU
administrator of Mostar, Hans Koschnick, told AFP that "the hypocrisy of
the current international policy in Bosnia is no longer bearable." The
New York Times on 21 July, however, said that President Bill Clinton
"deserves credit for avoiding American combat fatalities." -- Patrick
Moore, OMRI, Inc.

DISPLAY OF AIR POWER "NOT SEEN SINCE THE GULF WAR." This is how the VOA
on 21 July described the White House's plan outlined the same day at the
London meeting of the Contact Group countries plus Italy, Ukraine, the
Netherlands, Canada, and Spain. International media suggested that the
Serbs will be warned against attacking Gorazde, Sarajevo, or Tuzla or
taking peacekeepers hostage. If they do not heed the warnings, their
capital at Pale, command centers, missile sites, radar installations,
fuel dumps, or other targets may be attacked. Britain is especially
concerned for the fate of 300 of its peacekeepers at Gorazde and has
reportedly endorsed the American plan. France wants U.S. helicopters to
ferry 1,000 French troops into Gorazde, and reports are contradictory as
to whether Washington has brought Paris around to its point of view.
Elsewhere, Serbian media on 21 July reported that Bosnian Serb leader
Radovan Karadzic has offered to swap some territory held by his men
around Sarajevo in return for Gorazde. His men shelled downtown Sarajevo
that same day. -- Patrick Moore, OMRI, Inc.

ROMANIAN-HUNGARIAN TALKS ON BASIC TREATY. International agencies
reported on 20 July from Bucharest that Romania and Hungary continue to
differ over the pending basic treaty. The differences are centered on
the Council of Europe's Recommendation 1201. Bucharest has now agreed to
include it in the treaty on condition that a common interpretation is
reached. Experts from both sides are to attempt to narrow the remaining
gaps. Romanian Foreign Minister Teodor Melescanu said at a joint news
conference that the common interpretation must exclude any idea of
territorial autonomy based on ethnic criteria. President Ion Iliescu,
after receiving Hungarian Foreign Minister Laszlo Kovacs, noted that the
demands for territorial autonomy were "ambiguous" and created "confusion
and artificial tension." Kovacs argued it was up to the Council of
Europe to interpret the recommendation. He also expressed "concern" over
the law on higher education passed by the Romanian parliament last
month. On returning to Budapest, Kovacs said that he was not planning
another meeting with Melescanu and that it was Romania's "turn to come
up with a new initiative." -- Michael Shafir, OMRI, Inc.

CONCERN OVER AMERICAN INVOLVEMENT IN INDEPENDENT TV. The liberal
newspaper Moskovskii komsomolets charged on 20 July that the non-profit
organization Internews, which is linked to the U.S. Information Agency
and the American fund to support independent television broadcasting in
Russia, exerts undue influence over 47 independent regional television
stations, reaching an audience of 30 million people in Russia. The paper
noted that Internews created and largely finances the Independent
Broadcasting System, the largest Russian association of private
television stations. The paper added that it is not difficult to foresee
the consequences of an American "takeover" of regional Russian
television, saying, "He who pays the piper orders the music." -- Laura
Belin, OMRI, Inc.

[As of 1200 CET]

Compiled by Jan Cleave
Compiled by Victor Gomez

The Daily Digest is copyrighted (C) 1995, Open Media Research Institute. 
This material was reprinted with permission of the Open Media 
Research Institute, a Prague-based nonprofit organization.

In article > ,
 writes:
>>Practise and repeat 1000 times
 
>>Eu sunt roman !

Joe, nagyon vigyázz ezzel, mert kiszőrösödik a talpad tőle.

Tamás :)

The "Hungarian Pronunciation Tutor" has a new home on the World Wide Web
at http://www.interaccess.com/users/jas/hungarian_pronunciation.html. 
With touches of art and music, it's like a mini-trip to Hungary.  Just
click the  mouse on the word, and it is pronounced.  This allows you, the
student, to set the pace, and hear Hungarian words repeatedly until they
are mastered.  Native Hungarian speaker:  Dr. Louis I. Szathmáry, widely
known as "Chef Louis" of Chicago's "Bakery" restaurant fame.  Some 250
Hungarian words included..  The "Hungarian Pronunciation Tutor" covers
vowels, plain and accented, short and long;  short and long consonants; 
consonant assimilation and fusion;  the Hungarian alphabet;  grammatical
differences between English and Hungarian.  Vocabulary lists included. 
Sample pages online.  Pointers to other Magyar sites.

LI>Actually, politics in the 15th century Hungary was not
LI>ethnic-oriented. 
 But of course - the whole idea of nationality as we know it started 
around the late 17th-early 18th centuries and nationalistic politics got 
prevalent only in the 19th... The earlier feudal society was anything but 
ethnic oriented.

 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 
"For my assured failures and derelictions, I ask pardon beforehand of my
betters and my equals in my calling." 		- 	Rudyard Kipling

Hello!

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Elolvastam a FAQ-t, de kicsit homalyos.

Koszi
					Peter Szucs