In article >, T. Kocsis > says:
>
>>However, Gyorffy did not mention three important facts:
>>(1)that the every day language of the late 9th century
>>East Franks was German, Latin being just the official
>>language;
>
>German in the 9th century ??? Come on, it is a very easy
>target...

Really !? Go ahead, make my day... I expect references from modern
researchers suggesting that the every day language of the
9th century East Franks was latin.

>
>>(2)that the Hungarian name for Romanians was
>>Olah(i), a people whose every day language was a
>>romance language,
>
>No, definitely not. The 'olasz' -Italien is the older
>word, much older than the 'olah' in Hungarian. Both
>words' roots in the 'valch'  but the 'olasz' came into
>the language through Slavic language form 'vlasi', which
>means the Hungarians did not live together with
>romance volks.

Let's see if I can follow: "olasz" for the Franks is derived
from the Slavic "vlasi". But the Slavs used "vlasi" for the
Romanians who and the Slav-Romanian borrowings started at least
as early as the 7th century. The Slavs never called the Romanians
"volks", neither they use "vlasi" for the Franks.
:-) :-) :-)

>The 'olah' name came later when the
>Vlachs appeared in Hungarian populated areas and
>their name made its way to Hungarian directly; thats
>why it differs from the  'olasz'. Our language kept the
>ending 'ch' -> 'h' sound but changed the first letter,'v'
>to 'o' again.

Yeah, right. Please quote one Hungarian document that used
"the vlasi" for the Franks.

>
>>and (3)that tens of Middle-Ages
>>place-names and geographical names containing the
>>equivalent of the ethnic name Vlach (Vlas, Vlase,
>>Vlasovo) still exist in present day Croatia, Serbia,
>>Banat, Bulgaria, and Muntenia.
>
>And in Switzerland (Wallis) and I am not going to talk
>about the similar names in France.
>

Your example is not relevant. "Wallis" is probably derived
directly from the German root while "Vlas" reflects the Slav
mediation.


Liviu Iordache

In article >  (ibokor) write
s:
>"The dog sees the man" is in the active voice, whereas "The man is seen by
>the dog" is in the passive voice.
>In the former sentence, the subject is "the dog" whereas in the latter the
>subject is "the man". In both of the Hungarian sentences "a kutya" is the
>subject.

So a Hungarian active voice can correspond to an English passive voice,
and so what? In many cases a good translation involves bigger
transformations, a noun corresponding to a subordinate clause, an
adjective becoming the base of the verb, etc etc
-- Olivier

Hi,I am George Chong from Malysia. I am interested in getting contacts 
for penpals .

Considering your postings Mark, you look like a bigot, stoop like a 
bigot, holler like a bigot -- well lo and behold, you win first prize in 
the Big Best Bigot contest of Romania Mare. There's nothing wrong with 
you that a small nuclear device strategically located south of your load 
of post-nutritive disposal substance wouldn't cure.






































-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

>>>Wally Keeler wrote:
>>>Avrum Iancu, you ole revolutionary you. Welcome back to SCR via
>>>Anon. Did you bump into your evolutionary mutation, Corny
>>>CodreAnus?

>>DBrutus wrote:
>>are. You are mixing up Codreanu with Iancu is more than a bit 
>>insulting to me but I guess, by now, I should cease to expect any
>>sort of apology for rude behavior on your part.

>Wally Keeler wrote:
>It was they who invoked Avram Iancu's name, not me. I did not 
>do the mixing up. 

You didn't invoke Iancu true. I didn't say you did. I said you mixed
up Codreanu with Iancu in a manner I find insulting. 

This tactic of refuting a point that I didn't make while not refuting
the point I did make is called knocking down straw men. It only
works with simple minded fools that don't have enough memory
to recall the original subject but simply flail around reacting
to whatever is around them. I can understand why you use it with
some of the people here. They fit the description. They are the
kind of people who get led around by govt. provocations into 
supporting many splinter factions of nationalists instead of 
uniting to throw our own set of very nasty bums out of power.

I however do have a bit of a memory. You did call Codreanu "your 
evolutionary mutation" in the message to A. Iancu (his real name
as I later found out). This is an inappropriate association IMHO.
Defend it with quotes from the originals or withdraw it.


In the tradition of Publius, Cato, and Centinel...
Decius Brutus

In article >,  (55000-W
eisz Guy(ih9999)999) writes:
> In article >,
> Charles Vamossy  > wrote:
>>Gabor Schmera <schmera> writes:
>> 
>>>Are there automatic teller machines in Hungary where one can use a credit
>>>card or an ATM card to get forints?


Well, I just got beck from Hungary and the ATM situation is pretty saddening
over there. I was broke for a whole week because all the ATMs were out of order
(at least the ones I tried to use). Finally I had to go some of the bigger
banks and do it over the counter. It took them forever to do the transaction.
They tooke my card and my passport. They filled out a slip and put down the
amount in forints (that I would get), then the amount in dollars (that would be
charged on my card) plus they added a percentage for doing the transaction.
They recorded my US address for their records then they had to call someone
else in another city  to get the whole thing verified. Then they filled out
another slip with the same info and finally I got my money.
Another thing: some banks will only take MC, some take only Visa. The bigger
bakns that are worth trying: IBUSZ Bank Rt., Magyar Kulkereskedelmi Bank, OTP.
IBUSZ Bank Rt. took only Visa (that was a month ago, they might have changed
their policy since then).
What was even more dissappointing is the fact that only a few stores take
creditcards. I tried to use mine at Benetton, Adidas, etc, and they didn't take
them.



Andrea

>> 
>>The New York Times just had an article about Citibank opening up ATMs in
>>Hungary.
> 
> 
> The ATMs are there, but they don't always work.  Cirrus sent me a list
> at one time of the locations of their ATMs. Is anyone interested in a 
> posting of that list (assuming I can find it)?
> 
> Robert W
>   
>

Just lost contact with a friend Mr Igaz Antall, and would like to see him
 again; as I will be in Hungary in few days time.
 He is a  Mechanical Engineer and would probably be working in Budapest or
 doing a post graduate in Miskolc Egyetem.
 If u know how I can get to him, please get in touch.  
 Thanks 

Valentine



    r

In article >,  writes:
>
>Could someone please give me the correct address and telephone number for
>the Hungarian Cultural Center on Rutgers campus in Piscataway, New Jersey.
>

The last address I have is:

Hungarian Heritage Center
American Hungarian Foundation
300 Sommerset Street
New Brunswick, NJ 08903
(908) 846-5777

I used to be on their mailing list, but I have not heard from them for the last
two years or so. If you contact them, please let me know whether they still
exist and whether the above address is correct. Thanks.

Regards.
******************************************************************************
Zoltan Nagy     
Divisions of Materials Science and Chemical Technology
Argonne National Laboratory                       Phone: (708) 252-4355
9700 South Cass Avenue                            FAX:   (708) 252-9373
Argonne, Illinois 60439-4837, USA                 E-mail: 
******************************************************************************

Wanna meet anyone who lives in pecs to show me around when I come in few
 days from now. I will be spending my vacation in pecs.
 Gender and age do not matter.
Valentine.

When I was in Budapest, I noticed air is quite dirty in
the city. What is causing this pollution? Is that because
they use different gas for cars or cars are quite old?
I have seen some signs of Suzuki and I don't think they
are making lousy cars over there(at least in Japan they make
good cars).

Jun

Hello,

I recently visited Budapest and found it to be quite nice.  I'm
thinking of spending a few months over in E. Europe and wanted
to ask about the possibility of employment over there.  I'm 
a Unix systems programmer/administrator/etc... The one person
I talked to over there (at a computer store) said that Unix
is very small in Hungary (< 5% of the market).  Is this so?  
Also, how difficult is for foreigners to be allowed to work 
in Hungary?  

Thanks,

Braun Brelin

In > Wally Keeler wrote:
>>Avrum Iancu, you ole revolutionary you. Welcome back to SCR via
>>Anon. Did you bump into your evolutionary mutation, Corny
>>CodreAnus? He comes thru the Anon service also, so it would be
>>logical to suspect you may be rhetorical buddies.

<<long Romanian nationalist call to arms deleted>>

In Message-ID: > Decius Brutus wrote:
>There are multiple organizations that take the name of Avram
>Iancu. He was a Romanian patriot and a great hero of our nation.

>I happen to belong to one of them, the Avram Iancu society in
>NY. It gets about as revolutionary as any insurance fraternal gets
>and you know how nasty and dangerous those insurance fraternals
>are. You are mixing up Codreanu with Iancu is more than a bit 
>insulting to me but I guess, by now, I should cease to expect any
>sort of apology for rude behavior on your part.

I did not write the "long nationalist call to arms". It was some of your
compatriots who wrote that extremist anti-Hungarian tract. It was they who
invoked Avram Iancu's name, not me. I did not do the mixing up. The content of
the "long nationalist call to arms" as you euphemistically put it, is an
insult to me, a threat to your Hungarian neighbours, and it should be an
insult to you. You are mixing up the bearer of the message with the author of
the message. You should address your hurt pride to those who created the
message. If anyone owes you an apology, it is the authors of the "long
nationalist call to arms" who invoked the name of Avram Iancu. Correct me if I
am wrong, but I don't believe Avram Iancu was motivated by anti-Hungarian
hatred -- but the message carried under his banner by the anonymous authors
are the ones who have committed the rude behaviour that has insulted you, so
don't use me as your whipping boy.

>Hey after all you're a poet (as you keep insisting . . . 

I keep insisting only because you and your compatriots keep insisting the
implication that I am not. Leave it alone and so shall I.

> . . . except when it turns >inconvenient, then you're not).

What is this expectation that poets should be consistent? I'm not a politician
-- I'm a poetician. I will do what ever is convenient to me and to my
advantage. If you have difficulties with that, so be it. It is of no concern
to me. The internationally reknown artist, Michael Snow, at a major
retrospective of his work, said "First of all I make up the rules of a game,
then I play it. If I appear to be losing, I change the rules." It's quite
simple, effective, and I like it this way.

>Grow up, lurk a bit, get a bit more selective in your targets 
>because you are starting to annoy me and unlike some of your other
>targets I'm no brainless strawman.
>DB

I have no doubt that you are not a brainless strawman. I don't think your SCR
compatriots will appreciate being referred to as brainless strawmen -- who
precisely are you referring to? Whether I annoy you or not is of absolutely no
concern to me. 

>In the tradition of Publius, Cato, and Centinel...
>Decius Brutus

In the tradition of Keats, Shelley, and Byron . . .
Wally Keeler
(isn't that enormously presumptuous of me?)






References: >
>>From:  (Wally Keeler)

in > (DBrutus) wrote
>Wally, Wally, why is it that I always find myself responding
>to your posts when it becomes clearer with every response
>that you simply will not stop stirring up ethnic trouble?

I did not stir up any ethnic trouble. I did not write the "long nationalist
call to arms" as you described it in another thread. I did not write that
anti-Hungarian tract. Decius, Decius, Decius, address your complaint to those
who wrote that ethnic-hating piece. I only posted it -- you are mixing up the
bearer of the message with the author of the message.

>>>Any Romanian, anywhere, cannot help reflect sadly on the
>>>unfortunate fate of Bessarabia, where the language of the
>>>Romanian majority is now "officially" called "Moldavian"  

>>Any human rights activist, anywhere, cannot help but to reflect
>>sadly on the unfortunate fate of the Roma where their name is now
>>"officially" called "tigani."

>This has been hashed out over and over again.

And you still don't get it.

>The Tigani are a minority all over Europe with their name in local languages
>changing from country to country. Romanians have the word tigan
>as the *ROMANIAN* label for that group just as they have the
>word ungur for Hungarian. The labels in and of themselves do not
>indicate insult.

Americans of African descent are a minority all over the United States and
their name has been nigger (niggah is some dialects). Go walk up to a dark-
skinned American and call him a nigger -- you'll get what you richly deserve.
Ask them what they would like to be called. Indians have been called indians
by misguided people of European descent. They are not. They have names for
themselves. I have learned to treat them, as a people, with repect and call
them by the name they wish to be referred to. Come to Canada and you will see
a disproportionate number of Native Canadians drunkedly wandering the streets.
There is a disproportionate number of Native Canadians in jail on conviction
of a wide assortment of petty crimes. None of this means that I should
describe them, as a people, as predators, or to degrade them, as a people,
with many of the postings I read on SCR authored by your compatriots.

I call them Roma. It is the name they prefer to be called by. It is my respect
for them as a people. I do not deny that a disproportionate number of them
have committed a wide assortment of crimes. This has never been denied by me.
My case is simply to respect them, as a people. Indian is a Euro-centric label
imposed on Native People, Oboriginals as you wish. Tigan is a Romanian-centric
label for the Rom. Step outside your ethno-centricity for a moment, and maybe
your vision of assorted cultures and nations will broaden.

>It is only the group that wears a label that can really
>sully it over the long haul and even a 'bad' label can be rehabilitated
>over time by good behavior on the part of the members of the 
>group. 

There was very little "good behaviour" shown on the part of some of your
compatriots on SCR. Calling an entire people predators satisfies what?
Declaring that "Even a peaceful population has the right to burn the
predators" as was posted by one of your compatriots, solves nothing -- indeed
it exacerbates the matter even more.

Many of the postings by some of your compatriots described the Rom, as a
people, in a manner which was racist. 

>Grow up Wally. This is not the first time I have raised this
>point but until now I don't think you have ever addressed it, 
>preferring to go after inflammatory idiots on S.C.R. who could be
>rhetorically put away by some ten year olds that I know...

There, I have addressed your point, perhaps not to your satisfaction, but you
have not entirely satisfied my points. I have posted the dates, the places and
citations concerning the homes of the Rom that have been burned to the ground.
No one has responded in kind. There has been responses against me for being
anti-Romanian, etc. Well then, the International Labour Organization is anti-
Romanian, the UN Human Rights Commission is anti-Romanian. Amnesty
International is anti-Romanian, except of course, when it defended ethnic-
Romanians against the human rights abuses perpetrated by Ceausescu's regime,
or the regime in Trans-Dneister. Grow up Decius and look beyond your own
ethno-centricity and you'll see that the world is moving forward.

>In the tradition of Publius, Cato, and Centinel...
>Decius Brutus

In the tradition of Layton, Purdy and Atwood
Wally Keeler






































: -- 
: Wally Keeler					Poetry
: Creative Intelligence Agency			is
: Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

I was in Budapest 4 years ago and I too noticed the high level of 
air pollution. There are two main sources: the Budapest Transit
Company still uses locally manufactured buses with diesel engines.
These engines are inefficient and purly maintained. You can see
black smoke comming out of the exhaust system when-ever they 
accelerate. The other source is passenger cars: there are still 
many two stroke engines left from the former Eastern-European 
auto manufacturers (although their number is deminishing as they
find their way to the junk yard).

George Ruthart, Mississauga, Ontario Canada

Tisztelt SCM-Olvasok!

A minap erdeklodtek az SCM-en a Ferencvarosi Torna Club, alias FTC,
alias Ferencvaros, alias Fradi foci-csapata felol.
Lehet, hogy mar lejott a kovetkezo informacio, de talan nem baj, ha
aka'r tobbszor is elhangzik, mit kell tenni a kimerito valaszert,
amennyiben a gepen van WWW csatlakozas.

a WWW kliens-program elinditasa a kovetkezo cimzessel:
    http://www.hungary.com
majd az egymas utan megjeleno hypertext-ekben sorrendbem a kovetkezo
kijelolt szovegek valasztasa:
    Hungary Online Directory
    Sport
    Ferencvaros
igy eloall a Ferencvaros Home Page, amely rengeteg tudnivalot tartalmaz
a klub tortenelmerol, valamint az idei bajnoksagrol, kuparol (merkozesek
eredmenyei, osszeallitasok, pont-tablazat, atigazolasi tervek, ...)

a Ferencvaros Home Page kozvetlenul is megkaphato az alabbi cimmel:
    http://ogyalla.konkoly.hu/staff/zsoldos/fradi.html

Azert irtam megis a fentebbi korulmenyes utat, mert azon belul masfele
agazva, peldaul a Hungary Online Directory-ban mast valasztva (arts,
education, reference, science, ...) sok erdekessegre bukkanhat az, kinek
van eleg ideje.

Tisztelettel:
Kisvarga J.
Dept. of Math., BKE