Erseki konyvtar means Bishop's Library. In Esztergom we have the highest
chatolic officier -as the one in Budapest called "Mindszenthy" was
killed by the communist regime after the 1956 revolution. My English is
not very good and I'm not good in History but this is a quick reply.

Kind Regards,

   Dr. Nandor BALOGH

EMails: 

On Sat, 23 Nov 1996, Avril Henry wrote:

> Greetings, and apologies. I am making a flying visit to this list to ask for
 you
> r help. I need the full (snail-mail)
> address of Erseki Ko"nyvta'r (accents follow the letters), Esztergom. I speak
 no
>  Hungarian whatever, but found
> my way on the Web to a Hungarian/English dictionary which told me that
 "Ko"nyvta
> 'r" = "Library". It did not
> know what "Erseki" means. Perhaps it is a proper noun? In that case, perhaps
 no
> further address is needed--but
> your advice would be most welcome.
>
> Avril Henry
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   e-mail: 
>      tel: 01392 264252
>      fax: +44 1392 264361
>    snail: Professor Avril Henry, School of English & American Studies,
>           Queen's Building, Queen's Drive, University of Exeter,
>           EXETER, UK, EX4 4QH
>

At 02:00 PM 11/24/96 +0000, Dr. Nandor BALOGH wrote:
>Erseki konyvtar means Bishop's Library. In Esztergom we have the highest
>chatolic officier -as the one in Budapest called "Mindszenthy" was
>killed by the communist regime after the 1956 revolution. My English is
>not very good and I'm not good in History but this is a quick reply.

Indeed. Far from me from defending the communist anti-revolutionaries after
1956. And maybe they would have killed Cardinal Mindszenty. But he found
refuge at the American embassy, where he spent a number of years. I think
finally he was allowed to leave and died in exile (in the Vatican?).

Gabor D. Farkas

At 06:24 AM 11/24/96 -0800, Gabor D. Farkas wrote:

>At 02:00 PM 11/24/96 +0000, Dr. Nandor BALOGH wrote:
>>Erseki konyvtar means Bishop's Library. In Esztergom we have the highest
>>chatolic officier -as the one in Budapest called "Mindszenthy" was
>>killed by the communist regime after the 1956 revolution. My English is
>>not very good and I'm not good in History but this is a quick reply.
>
>Indeed. Far from me from defending the communist anti-revolutionaries after
>1956. And maybe they would have killed Cardinal Mindszenty. But he found
>refuge at the American embassy, where he spent a number of years. I think
>finally he was allowed to leave and died in exile (in the Vatican?).

Sorry, but I don't get teary-eyed about Cardinal Mindszenty.  He was merely
the Hungarian representative of a system that also required/requires
subservience.

Joe Szalai

"I never saw, heard, nor read, that the clergy were beloved in any nation
where Christianity was the religion of the country. Nothing can render them
popular, but some degree of persecution."
          Jonathan Swift

List-Owner,  Zoli Fekete, for so promptly and generously answering my
questions. I shall now sign off again, leaving you all to your admirable [and
lively :-) ] List.

Oh, and I am so old that I _remember_ the Cardinal Mindszenty events....Sigh.

Gratefully,
Avril
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
  e-mail: 
     tel: 01392 264252
     fax: +44 1392 264361
   snail: Professor Avril Henry, School of English & American Studies,
          Queen's Building, Queen's Drive, University of Exeter,
          EXETER, UK, EX4 4QH

On Sun, 24 Nov 1996, S or G Farkas wrote:
>
> Indeed. Far from me from defending the communist anti-revolutionaries after
> 1956. And maybe they would have killed Cardinal Mindszenty. But he found
> refuge at the American embassy, where he spent a number of years. I think
> finally he was allowed to leave and died in exile (in the Vatican?).
>
> Gabor D. Farkas
> ---------------
   Mindszenty has lived (and died) in Austria. Although the Vatican
has arranged for him  to leave Hungary,  the Vatican didn't want to
have anything to do with him after that.He had embarrassed even the
Vatican, and some of us know how difficult that is.
                                                      Amos

Your problem Aniko is that neither you nor Joe have even attempted to
answer the original question raised in the original quesry.
You still have NOT addressed the issues and attacked me as well.

Perhaps it is becasue neither of you are capable of sticking to the subject.
Let me then ask the basic question and see if you are smart enough to
even try an answer without your liberal BS:

What would you do to all the communists? or others that killed Hungarians?
Would you kill them? That I believe was the basic question raised.

Cant you answer it? (perhaps not -- base on Joes and your previous
comments perhaps you are one -- at least ultra leftists).

Well answer the question ----- in fact I was just trying to say that IF
one does what was suggested then we would fall into the endless cycle of
revenge killings (ala Middle East). But I guess that was too far right
for you to read or understand.

Answer the question and stop your on-sensical BS.

BTW Perhaps it is an honor that you call me Rev. (I am not)
Peter Soltesz

On Sat, 23 Nov 1996, Aniko Dunford wrote:

> Dear (self acclaimed, but so be it - (it's a free world))  Rev. Soltesz:
>
>  At 03:33 PM 23/11/96 -0500, you wrote:
> >Hey Aniko!
> >Please pray tell what the heck is that supposed to mean?
> >You and Szalai among others cannmot even read the original that someone
> >else sent you and respond to it...except to attack people.
> >Tell me what I said that is wrong? Neither of you managed to respond in
> >any intelligent manner except to attack people.
> >
> First; Is it perhaps, that your God had in mind a level of intelligence for
> some; above that, of your own comprehension? - take it up with him/her.
>
> Second; "to attack people" - ha? Must be coming from within a tad, Dear Rev?
>
> Third: re: "pray tell, etc) - replace "Szalai" "You" along with "others" by
> "I" (as in Rev. Soltesz).  Then, see if it makes more sense.
>
> If it still makes no sense to you;  take a couple of aspirins, or a shot of
> Muskotaly - and please, take the time to read, again... all that you've
> said, and in reply to what. Then, if it is still leaving you lost, consult
> your "God", who ever it may be .... He/she, seems to have all your answers.
> Since your own, are non existant.  You cowardly continue to hide behind
> He/She's ideologies.
>
> In faith,
> Aniko.
>

Hi Peter:

Ok; let's start from the beginning - as below.  There at times, that one
must swallow a big one ... this being one.  Forgive my snide remarks.  I
misread your note completely. No excuses, save stupidity.  My reaction was
based simply on misinterpretation of your words.  I apologize for being out
of line, and withdraw the last two posts' contents.

Regards,
Aniko

  At 10:26 AM 23/11/96 -0500, you wrote:
>On Sat, 23 Nov 1996, Joe Szalai wrote:
>
>> At 06:34 AM 11/23/96 GMT,  wrote:
>>
>> >anyone who participated in the deathof Hungarians is a criminal and should
>> >be shot. Incidently, Rakosi and Gero were Jews who were more than happy to
>> >kill innocent Hungarians. Sort of like Adolf Hitler, actually.
>> >Suck on that for a while.
>>
>> Hey buddy, I'll give you something to suck on for a while.  No doubt you
>> blame Jews for your single digit IQ.  Right?
>>
>> Joe Szalai
>
><<<<<<<<
>Joe you are like a wild dog attacking any bone!
>
>You with your high negative IQ managed to totally ignore the statement
>which happens to be a fact. Morevoer, you also ignorethe first statement
>which I think is what you should be reacting to much more.
>Namely, does it imply that ANYONE who killed Hungarians should be killed --
>Nazis, Communists, Turks, Mongols, Romanians, Slovakians, et al?
>
>Need I say more? When will we be ready to bring REAL justice. Is killing
>all those who killed us going to solve the problem(s) -- or is there a
>better way?  Let us just say that : "Vengence is mine said the Lord!".
>
>Peter Soltesz
>
>

At 11:42 AM 11/24/96 -0500, Peter Soltesz wrote:

>Your problem Aniko is that neither you nor Joe have even attempted to
>answer the original question raised in the original quesry.
>You still have NOT addressed the issues and attacked me as well.
>
>Perhaps it is becasue neither of you are capable of sticking to the subject.
>Let me then ask the basic question and see if you are smart enough to
>even try an answer without your liberal BS:
>
>What would you do to all the communists? or others that killed Hungarians?
>Would you kill them? That I believe was the basic question raised.

What?  Kill the 800,000+ Hungarians who joined the party?  Are you nuts?
(Don't answer that, Peter.  It's a rhetorical question.  I already know the
answer.)

Joe Szalai

G.D. Farkas wrote:

>At 10:30 PM 11/23/96 GMT, Agnes wrote:
>
>>I would like to point out here that the Rakosi regime didn't make any
>>distinction between Jews and non-Jews.  Jewish "capitalists" had exactly
>>the same fate as the non-Jewish capitalists.
>
>We all know this. I am sure  knows it too. But he is a nazi
>and does what nazis do. How old is he? Was he a "keretlege'ny"? Or may be
>one of Szalasi's boys? Is he yearning for the good old times?
>
>The light is strong and I hope he is going to crawl back where he belongs,
>under the rock, with all the other bugs.
>
>Gabor D. Farkas

Whoa! Do you get so nervous all the time when you read/meet antisemitism?
Such guys (nazi scums as you called them) don't worth so much.

J.Zs

>Your problem Aniko is that neither you nor Joe have even attempted to
>answer the original question raised in the original quesry.
>You still have NOT addressed the issues and attacked me as well.
>
>Perhaps it is becasue neither of you are capable of sticking to the subject.
>Let me then ask the basic question and see if you are smart enough to
>even try an answer without your liberal BS:
>
>What would you do to all the communists? or others that killed Hungarians?
>Would you kill them? That I believe was the basic question raised.
>
>Cant you answer it? (perhaps not -- base on Joes and your previous
>comments perhaps you are one -- at least ultra leftists).
>
>Well answer the question ----- in fact I was just trying to say that IF
>one does what was suggested then we would fall into the endless cycle of
>revenge killings (ala Middle East). But I guess that was too far right
>for you to read or understand.
>
>Answer the question and stop your on-sensical BS.
>
>BTW Perhaps it is an honor that you call me Rev. (I am not)
>Peter Soltesz
>Peter:the subject was WAR Criminals.We don't have to be liberals,neither
socialist,nor Republicans to adhere the Geneva convention.
War criminals commit there crime in War.Not Rakosi,nor Gero or other Jew
committed there crime in War.
Would you agree or maybe dissagree that the War criminals in the Bosnian war
are to be tried?Is there Law against this crime,or is it a crime?You can't
lieve evrithing to God,He is too busy to avoid another Bosnia or Rawanda,or
communism,and most of all He is occupyd with you,and I.
Don't get upset,and put names on people maybe they are the staunchest
Republicans.
Besides what do you have so much against liberalism?
Greetings:Andy.
>On Sat, 23 Nov 1996, Aniko Dunford wrote:
>
>> Dear (self acclaimed, but so be it - (it's a free world))  Rev. Soltesz:
>>
>>  At 03:33 PM 23/11/96 -0500, you wrote:
>> >Hey Aniko!
>> >Please pray tell what the heck is that supposed to mean?
>> >You and Szalai among others cannmot even read the original that someone
>> >else sent you and respond to it...except to attack people.
>> >Tell me what I said that is wrong? Neither of you managed to respond in
>> >any intelligent manner except to attack people.
>> >
>> First; Is it perhaps, that your God had in mind a level of intelligence for
>> some; above that, of your own comprehension? - take it up with him/her.
>>
>> Second; "to attack people" - ha? Must be coming from within a tad, Dear Rev?
>>
>> Third: re: "pray tell, etc) - replace "Szalai" "You" along with "others" by
>> "I" (as in Rev. Soltesz).  Then, see if it makes more sense.
>>
>> If it still makes no sense to you;  take a couple of aspirins, or a shot of
>> Muskotaly - and please, take the time to read, again... all that you've
>> said, and in reply to what. Then, if it is still leaving you lost, consult
>> your "God", who ever it may be .... He/she, seems to have all your answers.
>> Since your own, are non existant.  You cowardly continue to hide behind
>> He/She's ideologies.
>>
>> In faith,
>> Aniko.
>>
>
>

Hi Aniko:
Apology accepted. Let us try to keep to the issues/questions next time.
Regards, Peter

On Sun, 24 Nov 1996, Aniko Dunford wrote:

> Hi Peter:
>
> Ok; let's start from the beginning - as below.  There at times, that one
> must swallow a big one ... this being one.  Forgive my snide remarks.  I
> misread your note completely. No excuses, save stupidity.  My reaction was
> based simply on misinterpretation of your words.  I apologize for being out
> of line, and withdraw the last two posts' contents.
>
> Regards,
> Aniko

At 07:38 PM 11/24/96 -0500,Andy Kozma wrote:

>>Peter:the subject was WAR Criminals.We don't have to be liberals,neither
>socialist,nor Republicans to adhere the Geneva convention.
>War criminals commit there crime in War.Not Rakosi,nor Gero or other Jew
>committed there crime in War.

<<snip>>

>Greetings:Andy.

I have not followed closely this thread, but Andy's comments beg my own.

The Geneva conventions are a set of rules that attempt to define  wartime
behavior, when it is a lot more tempting to break laws and claim that all is
fair in the interest of fighting a war.  The Conventions remind the warring
parties that they are expected to adhere to some rules and that they should
expect their enemies to do the same.

The Geneva conventions have no impact on peacetime activities, when other
rules and laws govern, thus technically Andy is right that Gero Rakosi (and
we should add at least Farkas Mihaly) violate the Geneva conventions.

So what???  The unholy trio of  Gero, Rakosi and Farkas should have been
subject to normal peacetime Hungarian laws.  The false imprisonment and
sometimes the subsequent murder of well known people like Laszlo Rajk and
countless nameless others should have been capital crimes.  Unfortunately,
laws are enforced by people who possess the power, and these murders were
deemed not to have been murders under the Kadar regime.  False charges,
trumped up evidence, violations of basic human freedoms and due process
should have brought at least stiff punishment for perjury for at least the
Rakosi, Gero, Farkas trio.  Instead, they enjoyed their retirement years in
exile and died of natural causes, having spent not a single day in prisons
like Recsk.

Kadar himself was falsely accused of high crimes against the Hungarian State
and was imprisoned for a while.  Rumors even have it that he was tortured in
jail.  After he was freed, he spoke out against his tormentors and in
October 1956 joined the Revolutionary Government of Imre Nagy and became the
Secretary of the Communist Party.  Unfortunately, he then decided to commit
high treason, this time for real, and even though he was a minister in the
Nagy Government, he deserted his post and he physically joined the enemy
troops and accompanied them in their military attack on  Hungary and its
Government. Once installed as the Soviet Union's local puppet, he negotiated
with the Yugoslav Government and gave his word for the freedom and free
departure of Imre Nagy and his party from the Yugoslav Embassy.  He broke
his word and arrested them as even as they were boarding their bus which was
to take them home. Having become a pitiful liar and having committed high
treason himself, I guess he no longer felt the moral justification to bring
his tormentors Rakosi, Gero and Farkas to justice.  That of course, did not
prevent him from murdering Prime Minster Imre Nagy, some of his colleagues
and hundreds of others.

For a government thus  born in the midst of such a moral  dung heap, any
wonder if it failed to do the right thing later?

Back to Rakosi, Gero, etc.:  the fact that their religious origin was Jewish
have nothing to do with their crimes (just like Kadar's crimes have nothing
to do with the fact he was born a Christian).  I am sure that their lives
and crimes are as much an anathema to religious Jews as it is to religious
Christians, Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, Taoist, etc (with apologies to all I
left out).  With their actions they offended as much their commandments as
those of others (thou shalt not kill, for one...).  They were failures as
Jews, they were failures as human beings.

regards,

Charles Vamossy

In article >,
 says...
>
>Erseki konyvtar means Bishop's Library. In Esztergom we have the highest
>chatolic officier -as the one in Budapest called "Mindszenthy" was
>killed by the communist regime after the 1956 revolution. My English is
>not very good and I'm not good in History but this is a quick reply.
>
>Kind Regards,
>
>   Dr. Nandor BALOGH
>
>Yes, Dr. Balogh - you are indeed not good in history.  Cardinal
Mindszenthy lived for years in the US embassy in Hungary, then found
asylom somewhere else - I am sorry, I don't remember where, but he died
in peace in exile.

Agnes

At 07:34 PM 11/24/96 -0500, Janos Zsargo wrote:

[snip]

>Whoa! Do you get so nervous all the time when you read/meet antisemitism?

No, only when I read it in my house, on my computer, "talking" to people
with some of whom I may disagree, or even argue, but  I assume they all
still have basic human decency in them.

>Such guys (nazi scums as you called them) don't worth so much.

You are right, they are worth nothing. However, I just can't keep quiet.

Gabor D. Farkas

At 10:26 AM 11/23/96 -0500, Peter Soltesz  wrote:

> Morevoer, you also ignorethe first statement
>which I think is what you should be reacting to much more.
>Namely, does it imply that ANYONE who killed Hungarians should be killed --
>Nazis, Communists, Turks, Mongols, Romanians, Slovakians, et al?

I agree with Charlie Vamossy's statement on the topic. I think everyone
suspected to be guilty of crimes of any kind (war crimes, etc.) should be
tried and, if convicted, sentenced. This is the American way. And lately
becoming the universal  way (see South Korea, Germany, Central African
Republic and others).

>Need I say more? When will we be ready to bring REAL justice. Is killing
>all those who killed us going to solve the problem(s) -- or is there a
>better way?  Let us just say that : "Vengence is mine said the Lord!".

Enforcing laws is not vengeance. It's justice.

Gabor D. Farkas