Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Csango people (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: vatra romaneasca, vagy mi a fene? (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
3 Proba (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
4 Countess Elizabeth Bathory (mind)  4 sor     (cikkei)
5 My World Wide Quest for the Perfect Woman (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: vatra romaneasca, vagy mi a fene? (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Proba (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: De minek lementeni ? (mind)  28 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Scholarship on Countess Bathory (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
10 magyar cserkeszek--hol vagytok? (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Help (mind)  38 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Countess Elizabeth Bathory (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: tips on Hungary (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: De minek lementeni ? (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: re. history of transylvania (mind)  51 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: Hungarian revisionism (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: Countess Elizabeth Bathory (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: Looking to meet Internetters in Tra (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: re. transylvania s population distribution (mind)  191 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: vatra romaneasca, vagy mi a fene? (mind)  43 sor     (cikkei)
21 Re: De minek lementeni ? (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Csango people (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hermes ) wrote:

: On 28 May 1995  wrote:

: > For a moment I tought you were describing your own country in the first
: > decades of this century.  After all it was Romania which increased its
: > size, along with some other neighbors of Hungary.

: Man indeed you lack the ability of giving attention to detail ;=))
: They only took what was theirs, hell we didn't even ask for reparations.
: After using and abusing Transylvania for many centuries, the settlement
: of 1918 was quite mild.

: > If calling attention to your habit of using gutter language and personal
: > insults is "biased and venomous ranting", so be it.  It's just another
: > "own goal" for you, hermes boy!

: Now you are very much doing me injustice ! Gosh, if I need you to call
: attention to my 'habit of using gutter language...', it means that I must
: have been quite ineffective. Don't despair, there is a lot of room for 
: improvement in this area !
: m. cristian

First of all you should "burn some predators" (your words concerning the 
Roma) then maybe you could find more room in your gutter for improvement.
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
+ - Re: vatra romaneasca, vagy mi a fene? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 02 > wrote:

> (maybe as a prelude to the upcoming  (presidental) elections) even those 
> Rumanian political groups seem to 
> "join in" the Hungarian-bashing, like liberal Peasants' Party, who have 
> refrained from chauvinism so far.     

The Romanian opposition hasn't been involved in Hungarian-bashing, they
simply have let them know that autonomy on an ethnic basis isn't going to
happen.  This is just a terrible fight to pick for the UDMR (the Magyar
organization in Romania); they're just fueling the extremists on the other
It's too bad that they don't realize that nobody in Romania, not even the
opposition who has been sympathetic to other demands, is in favor of
autonomy on an ethnic basis.  It's not only wrong, it's also not going to

So they should focus their action on more constructive subjects.
Some people (including myself) favor greater local autonomy throughout the
country for example.

Andrei Popovici

On the other hand...   there are five fingers.
+ - Proba (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hogyne. Csak folytasdd!


+ - Countess Elizabeth Bathory (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Has there been any fairly recent work on Elizabeth Bathory? Specifically,
was the blood-drinking/bathing apocryphal? Were the murders motivated by
simple sadism--or what?
Can anyone direct me to any scholarship?
+ - My World Wide Quest for the Perfect Woman (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I've always wanted to know what the Perfect Woman was, or if
She truly exists and whether she is not the figment of 
men's weak minds.

If you are the Perfect Woman, please E-Mail me your divine
essence- that I may die a happy man.

Correspondences from lesser women also welcome.
+ - Re: vatra romaneasca, vagy mi a fene? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
Andrei Dan Popovici > wrote:
>The Romanian opposition hasn't been involved in Hungarian-bashing, they
>simply have let them know that autonomy on an ethnic basis isn't going to
>happen.  This is just a terrible fight to pick for the UDMR (the Magyar
>organization in Romania); they're just fueling the extremists on the other

This is not to pick a fight with you, but what is so inherently wrong
with ethnically based automy?  After all, it seems to work in other parts
of the world, why should that be such a non-starter with Romanians?
I seem to recall that Romanians themselves were trying to get that kind
of autonomy before Transylvania became theirs.

It's hard to escape the thought that what we have here is that Romanians
are projecting their own expected behavior onto Hungarians and that's
why they are so adamantly opposed to the autonomy for Hungarians.

Hungarians have the largest national minority today in Europe and not
because they moved outside of Hungary, but because the borders were moved
over their heads.  That fact alone deserves some special consideration.

+ - Re: Proba (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  (George No
lte) writes:
|>Latja ezt valaki, aki nem magyarorszagi szervert hasznal?
|>				George

En latom,   Pali
+ - Re: De minek lementeni ? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>Igen de az nem egy hivatalos backup, nem erhet el barki egy privat
>gyujtemenyt. A HIX-arhivumot viszont gyakorlatilag barki feltur-
>hatja kenye-kedvere. Nekem mar a gondolattol is borsodzik a hatam,
>hogy valami idiota cociologus majd belolunk akar doktoralni...

Mi az, Tamas?  Csak nem irtal valamit amit rostellned kellene? ;-)
Kulonben teljesen egyetertek a fenti erveleseddel.  Valoszinu legtobbunk
nem az orokkevalosagnak szanta legtobb itteni hozzajarulasat.
> Ma probakeppen letoltottem
>a 8-as szamot, hat abban a fortmatumba nteljesen elvezhetetlen. Tul nagy,
>nem koveti a cikkek logikajat, hanem idorendi sorrendben van rendszerezve.

Kivancsi lennek, hogy azokban az archivolt SCM szamokban minden itt
megjelent cikk benne volt-e, beleertve az en HJ-t kritizalo cikkeimet is.
Lattal beloluk egyet is?

>Nem ertek egyet a strukturalassal. Akkor lenne ertelme, ha tul nagy lenne
>a forgalom vagy nem birnank egymas jelenletet elviselni mire az egyik
>klikk csinalna egy csoportot maganak.

Szerintem is csak az lenne belole, hogy egy csomo cikket
"cross-post"-olnanak tobb csoportba is.

P. Jozsi
+ - Re: Scholarship on Countess Bathory (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
Adrian  > wrote:

>PS Hey JP, she could have made the perfect bride for You !!

Hey, Adrian!  Not all people with Hungarian names are necessary
Hungarian.  Just think of all the Romanian boyars who "converted" to
Hungarian nobility.  Or think of the Corvins.  So my hunch is that this
Elizabeth Bathory was somehow related to your Vlad, the Impaler.  The
similarity is just too obvious.

So there you have it. 

+ - magyar cserkeszek--hol vagytok? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

szia, itt a Kormann Berci, volt cserkesz, Passaic 1966-1982. Is anyone out
there from that era from passaic, new brunswick, new york, philly, cleveland,
buffalo, or anyone who's been to jubi, sik sandor? I'd love to hear from
anyone out there. Would like to know the whereabouts of old friends i.e.
Bajusz, Pozsgay, Vajtaj, Gereby, or Calgary, Toronto? Does anyone know where
Martonossy is these days? Please send back an email to reminisce.
+ - Re: Help (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
Burke  > wrote:
>My name is S. Tomie Burke and I am in need of assistance.  We are
>searching for the family of our father who was Hungarian.  He came to the
>U.S. in the 50's we think.  He had escaped from a Russian prison.  Dad,
>Jonas Szasz, died while we were small children in the 60's, a couple
>years later our mother died.

That's a pretty sad story, Tomie.  I think your dad's first name was
likely Janos, not Jonas.  It's the Hungarian equivalent of John.

I have relatives near the Szazhalombatta whom I regularly visit, but I'm
afraid Szazhalombatta is no longer the small village it used to be in
the '50s; it became a fair sized city where there might be several Szasz
families, without being related to each other.  It's a pretty common

>have the following.  Dad had a brother, Sandor Szasz in Szaszhalembatta,
>Hungary.  We recently wrote the mayor and he confirmed that Sandor is
>alive but would not give us his address.  We want our uncle and any other
>family to know we are alive and would like to correspond with them.  Can

Well, it's not clear if he did not give the address because there might
be several others by that name, or felt he had no right to do so.
Correspondence might also be a bit difficult without a common language.
I assume you don't know Hungarian and he doesn't know English.

>anyone out there help us get in touch with our Uncle.  Does anyone have
>family or a person in a nearby town that I can contact by e-mail?

You shouldn't assume the kind of communications infrastructure in
Hungary as here.  E-mail addresses are not nearly as ubiquituous over
there as here.  It's still mostly mail and expensive phone for most of
us with relatives there.

Joe Pannon
+ - Re: Countess Elizabeth Bathory (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > Denise noe,
>Has there been any fairly recent work on Elizabeth Bathory ?

Yes, I'll give you the title on Monday. I don'z have the book
at my workplace. Prepare yourself, it is Hungarian.

>Specifically, was the blood-drinking/bathing apocryphal ?

Yes, that's bogus. She was a sadist but even she preferred
watching it . She had maids (!)  who made the tortures.

>Were the murders motivated by simple sadism--or what?

There is a brief psychological analysis in the book which
traces it back to sexual problems.

+ - Re: tips on Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Just make sure you go to the Muvesz Kavehaz, across from the Opera. 
Actually going to the Opera wouldn't hurt either. And to the Cirko-Gezir 
cinema, Lorinc Papp ter. (Surely the best cinema in the world?)
And go eat at Kis Pipa, Akacfa utca, nr Blaha Lujza ter. BP nightlife 
changes its locus of coolness too often to be able to comment from a 

Have fun,

David Evans                                         Worcester College, Oxford
Orange mobile: 0973-418678                             Messages: 01865-278300
International: +44-973-418678                  International: +44-1865-278300
+ - Re: De minek lementeni ? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > , 
>Kivancsi lennek, hogy azokban az archivolt SCM szamokban minden itt
>megjelent cikk benne volt-e, beleertve az en HJ-t kritizalo cikkeimet is.
>Lattal beloluk egyet is?

Hogy minden cikk benne van-e azt nem neztem, de a te
irasaid azok benne vannak. A HJ-t kritizalo is.

+ - Re: re. history of transylvania (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Adrian writes:

Sorry that I have not reponded before, but this discussion needs more home 
work than I have time for recently. 
> OK, this is interesting.  One can even start up a theory that Latinized 
> people from the Pannonian flats were displaced by Migrating tribes and 
> moved up to more protected area in Transylvania and later south of the 
> Carpathians.
> This could be yet an other theory of the Origins of Romanians:
> "Out of Pannonia".
> Is it possible? Yes.  Is it likely, most probably NOT.

Agreed, Pannonia was under Rome much longer than TS, thus migration to that
area after the Aurelian evacuation was not recoreded as Roman speaking 
> >There are recent excavations in western Hungary which 
> > indicate that some Roman cultures may have survived even the  Hun and 
> > Langobard not always friendly visits. I will get you detail reference 
> > the latter findings. However any good detail Roman history will show 
> > the areas controlled by Rome after the Aurelian evacuation. 
> > tomes by Auxentius,Jordanes,Corippus,Paulus Diaconus and Procopius as 
> > as the Byzanine authors of Menander Protector, Eugarius, Theopylactus 
> > Simacotta, Theophanes, etc.

> This is even more interesting because it gives strength to the "Out of
> Pannonia" theory.  Unfortunately this would not suit very well the 
> Hungarian government because Romanians might claim some day the whole
> Pannonian land.  (Where are you Ion Panonescu ? Your Motherland, 
> Romania is calling you !)

I am puzzled, why the indication would be that Latin speakers would migrate
from a closer to Rome and longer Romanized area toward a longer abandoned 
area. I have never stated that any evacuation is 100%. The arguement 
relates to whether there is cultural survival in a region (contary to 
recorded indication) on a level that would be the basis for the 
reestablishment of the culture. It is very possible that some Dacians 
survived in the mountain area, but again those would be the least 
Romanized. For a possible analogy just see how Latinized the Basques became
right in the middle of, at the time, fairly well Romanized Gallia and 
Iberia. Although, probably for all cases the "revival" of the single 
language on a closer to Latin basis occured later, Gothic and Arabic was 
extensive in Spain, Languedoc and others cleansed out of French after the 
middle ages. English gained its many Latin based words not from the remnant 
Latinized folks but from the Normanns, who are also not the best example
for "original" Roman descendants. 

+ - Re: Hungarian revisionism (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

CLARY Olivier ) wrote:
: In article > Sorin Tuluca <s.tuluca@c
suohio.edu> writes:
: But the point is, it is a terrible thing to tell people that a solution might
: be they abandon the place where they were born! (showing us that the pseudo-
: VR manifesto is not far from reality...)  Never, never mention this if you
: do not want them to feel unsafe and demand as much autonomy as they can!
: -- Olivier

The Vatra Romaneasca manifesto is neither pseudo nor is "not far from 
reality". It IS reality. Just because VR or its leaderSHIT claimed it was a
fake or forgery does not make it so. Radu Ceontea, the president of VR is not
known as Mr Credibility.
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
+ - Re: Countess Elizabeth Bathory (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Thank you very much, Tams. Does this book have an English edition or
Again, thank you.
+ - Re: Looking to meet Internetters in Tra (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

As luck would have it, I as just preparing to post a similar message.   My
wife and I will be leaving (from Budapest, by Bus) to Transylvania late in
June for a family wedding. Any hints on what, whom to see..where to go in
the Brazov, Miklosoara Area would be quite appreciated.
               :   /```      .                _         ||
               :  @@--9   `` ".";; "        ((0))       ||
|||||||||||||| :  <\,\\_     `  " "'""     (((0)))      ||
When pleasure  :\\ ^/(8)\\        "",",   ((((0))))     ||
   Remains...  :  \\((0))//          "","(((((0)))))    ||
Can It Remain  :    ///\\\  //\         (((((("))))))   ||
   A Pleasure! :   //    \\// ----  ||
|||||||||||||| |   _\\  =======    ||John C. Bongiovanni||
+ - Re: re. transylvania s population distribution (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Cristian writes:

>      well, i based my statement upon reading various historical books 
>      deal with the area.  until now, i still consider that there are few 
>      documents up to the early XIII-th century that deal with 
>      i am not a specialist in magyar history, but i think that, during 

That could be a problem for this discussion since the history of TS is very 
closely tied to the history of the rest of Hungary in those days.

>      XI and XII centuries (especially the XI), hungary went through a 
>      period of internal fights and general political instability, and 
>      may account for the scarcity of documents.  in regards to 
>      transylvania, the only magyar one that chronicles the takeover is by 
>      the anonymous chronicler of king bela (I or II ?).  however, as i 
>      mentioned in the previous post, i found references to russian, 
>      persian, and byzantine chroniclers from that era that mention the 
>      people living in transylvania in those early middle age days.  
>      nevertheless, it would be quite interesting to analyze those newly 
>      discovered documents - but i have a question, though - how come they 
>      were not known before? were they hidden? where were they discovered?
Yes, there are a lot of records for the times which do not mention Vlachs 
or Latin speakers in Ts but they extensively discuss them further south.
I think at some time we should try to comply a list of all of the sources 
and make sure that we all are awrae of the specifics of the references.
After you get back from your "comparative shopping" :-), that could be a 
beneficial subject.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
      >This again appears to indicate a Romanian preoccupation with the non
>      >Orthodox and particularly the Catholic religion.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>      hey, no preoccupation here other than a historical one (in fact, my 
>      belief is agnostic....for now).

Please remeber that at times even reformed church ministers were sold as 
galley slaves to the Turks, identification of all religious differences to 
national differences also is not a safe argument.      
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>      ""5.  interesting to mention is also the royal decree in 1366 by 
>      all aristocratic land property was subject to authentification in 
>      terms of the owner's fidelity to the king of hungary.  the decree 
>      entailed the possibility of ROYAL REFUSAL TO RECOGNIZE THE RIGHTS OF 
>      POSSESSION TO NOBLES WHO WERE NOT CATHOLICS.  this fact explains why 
>      many romanian vlach nobles converted to catholicism (as to preserve 
>      their privileges).  and how about the very likely possibility that 
>      many romanian orthodox peasants and nobles left transylvania to move 
>      across the carpathians just because of the religious persecutions.  
>      yes, there were not ethnic persecutions per se (this is a later 
>      phenomenon), but certainly religious persecutions.  after that 
>      anti-romanian (orthodox) measures increased also partly because the 
>      threat posed by the 2 romanian principalities, Vallachia and 

There is more to this than what you write. The Hungarian kings at various 
times exercised suzerainity over the Wallachian area before the Anjous. 
This was the area from which Jazigs, Pechenegs and Cumans were admitted to 
Hungary and both the kings and the Catholic church had their eyes on the 
area, although most of the records relate to the conversion of Pagans, i.e.
Pechenegs and even more so Cumans in the region. The conversion efforts 
were quite specific for these folks and very little discussion is made for 
those of the Orthodox faith. Please remeber that Hungary itself was 
maintaing a close connection with the Byzantine area as a counterbalance to 
mainly the Germanic and at times the Catholic pressure from the west. This 
occured from the days of arrival on, even their arrival was the consequence
of a Byzantine alliance. Because the tribal rulers had extensive 
independence among the Hungarians, some of them clearly sided with the 
Byzantines rather than the west leaning leaders and were converted to the 
Orthodox religion. Bulcsu a horka (title) together with the greatgrandson 
of Arpad Termatzus was converted in 948 and got the "patrikios" title,later 
one of the Gyulas (title) in 950 became converted and became a patrikios 
and brought with him a Bishop of Turkia, Hierotheos. Stephen I son Imre had 
a wife from Byzantium and Andras I got a crown from Constantinople in 1047,
there are dozens of marrieges following on. (If you need detail info please 

Now the second part, the behavior of the Anjous. They were not universally 
welcomed into Hungary, a large part of the nobles was in fact agains them 
and two others were crowned kings (Otto and Ulaszlo) before after many 
battles they consolidated their rule. One of the longest lasting resistance 
came form the TS region. Charles Robert and within limits Louis I tried to
establish a new noble class to overcome the suspicions that came from the 
years of fighting. This was one of the reasons for the ennoblement of many 
Vlach kenezes and other leaders. They were made equal to the other nobles. 
while their land bound serfs were made equal to the other serfs of the 
It was not a separation but if anything an attempt of equalization of the 
folks. The event also is shown by the changes in tax structures, the 
partial switch from the "quinquageima ovium" to other forms also. With 
those events there was no differentiation between the Romanians and the 
Hungarians, the "equality " of the various classes was well indicated.
Now some of the folks were obviously not evenly pleased by this equality. 
The Previously Romanian Nobles were quite happy to become hungarian nobles, 
but many of the previously somewhat privilaged pastoral folks were not 
pleased to lower themselves to the presumed "equal" level of the Hungarian 
serfs. The result was the Bobilna, Babolna (1437) rising by all serfs not 
only Romanian and the subsequent Capilna, Kapolna agreement that  removed 
the prior privilages of the Romanian non-nobles and left them exactly where 
the Hungarian serf were, the only not exactly noble groups who were left 
with their privilages were the Saxons and the Seklers. Thus the "three 
nations" became the nobles (regardless of their origin) the Saxons and the 

>      Charles Robert of Anjou even tried to take over Vallachia, but was 
>      soundly defeated at the gorges of Posada (1366, i think).  and in 
>      1365, and because of the same reason, the maramures lands of voevode 
>      Bogdan were confiscated, which prompted his movement to Moldova, 
>      he became voevod.  this fact is mentioned in a chronicle on 
>      hungarian-romanian relations in the 13-14th centuries.""
Sure there were troubles between Wallachai and Hingary but please remeber 
that in 1368 Vlaicu Wallachian Voivode swore fealty the king and in 
exchange he got the title of Prince of Fagaras and the Ban of Severin.

>      therefore, things were obviously not rosy between romanians and 
>      in transylvania back then, and i agree, not for ethnic reasons, but 
>      we can see, for religious reasons.  if an orthodox in transylvania 
>      converted to catholicism, no persecutions were made.
I disgree, the conflicts of record were between nobles and serfs regardless 
of nationality and not for religious reasons. If anything as stated earlier 
those were the days of major Orthodox church building in TS, exceeding that 
of Wallachia or Moldavia.      

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>      >Even the Serbian kings and other memebers of the Serbian royal 
>      >were given large estates without any requirement to convert to 
>      >Catholicism. In the Maramures region for example there was a lot  
>      >less pressure to convert even by the Romanian nobles than in the 
>      >southern area of T/S.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>      interesting.  i have a few comments:
>      1.  please document when the serbian kings received large estates, 
>      where in hungary, and the source.
1) Please check the very good and well referenced, American written history 
book the two volumes of Early and Medieval Balkans, (I have lent the books, 
but I think the author is Cline)

>      2.  how does the statement about maramures go with the documented 
>      event i quoted above?

Easily, please read the all of the archive material for the reasons of 
Bogdan's departure.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>      let me give you a somewhat far off but, within the context, 
>      illustrative analogy:
>      the blacks in south africa had their own churches, their own 
>      centers, their own towns, their own papers, their 
>      own....whatever.....does it mean that they had freedom and that they 
>      were not persecuted?  and how about the situation in the south of 
>      until not long ago?
I disagree with your analogy, it would be correct if you could also show 
that soem of the South African  or American Blacks were included in the 
upper classes as extensively as the Romanians were in Hungary. I think you 
are really streching the two cases. I am shaking my head here, because if 
that is how you learned the events, the teachings were very one sided. No 
wonder that we have started out from so far apart.


>      -cristian
+ - Re: vatra romaneasca, vagy mi a fene? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  > wrote:
>In article >,
>Andrei Dan Popovici > wrote:
>>The Romanian opposition hasn't been involved in Hungarian-bashing, they
>>simply have let them know that autonomy on an ethnic basis isn't going to
>>happen.  This is just a terrible fight to pick for the UDMR (the Magyar
>>organization in Romania); they're just fueling the extremists on the other
>This is not to pick a fight with you, but what is so inherently wrong
>with ethnically based automy?  After all, it seems to work in other parts
>of the world, why should that be such a non-starter with Romanians?

I don't want to go into an argument about why I think it's not a good
idea--it would take pages.  The short answer is:  because we're all in
this together, and we should look at what we have in common, not at our

Autonomy was supposed to be a means to an end.  That end could perhaps be
described as freedom (cultural and economic) from the inept government in
Bucharest.  I think many Romanians could sympathize with that goal. 
Unfortunately, autonomy has become an end in itself, a magical cure-all.

>Hungarians have the largest national minority today in Europe and not
>because they moved outside of Hungary, but because the borders were moved
>over their heads.  That fact alone deserves some special consideration.

Honestly, I don't think so.


P.S  I'll stop bugging people on scm, I know it's annoying to have
somebody from the other side constantly writing on your own group 
(hint hint).

Andrei Popovici

On the other hand...   there are five fingers.
+ - Re: De minek lementeni ? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 30 May 1995, T. Kocsis wrote:

> In article > Zoli Fekete,  writes:
[ Igazandibol persze nem en irtam, hanem Jozsi]
> >Ez a megoldas elsosorban az archivalast segiti, hiszen ily modon
> >ez is visszakeresheto lesz akar evek mulva is;
> =C9s ez mi=E9rt j=F3 nek=FCnk ?
> A Usenet spontaneit=E1sa v=E9sz el ezzel, pont az a dolog,
> ami miatt sz=EDvesebben =EDrok ide, mint a HIX-re; pont az,
> ami a Usenet b=E1j=E1t, szubkult=FAra jelleg=E9t adja.=20
 Valamelyes pontossag megorzese erdekeben jelzem, hogy az idezetet nem en=
irtam, pusztan tovabbitottam a HIX bejelentesbol. Egyebkent egyetertek=20
azzal, hogy a Usenet meroben kulonbozo az email szubkulturatol (ami utobbin=
belul meg a HIX kulon al-reteget alkot). Ezert is tartanam jobbnak a=20
kettonek kulon csoportot biztositani.
 Egyebirant hogy az archivalas valahogyan elvehetne a news spontaneitasat,=
azt meroben abszurd allitasnak tartom - de mint emlitettem nincs kedvem az=
egesz nyarat ilyesmiken valo meddo tarsalgassal elszurni...

 Zoli  (note my old full address @bcuxs2 is retired)
"For my assured failures and derelictions, I ask pardon beforehand of my
betters and my equals in my calling." - Rudyard Kipling