@@ This message was submitted two times already but was sent back with
two different excused. It is unfair for a debate to suppress on side @@

..no, not to me. It would not matter if I did not exist "as an actual
person". (BTW: who does Kornai think write this letter if not "an actual
person", an actually "living person"?)

It is not I who needs an apology.

Kornai must apologize to the Hungarian Freedom Fighters for his defamation
of their heroic struggle and too often of their paramount sacrifice.
Hungarians risked, and lost, their lives in fight for freedom of Hungary
from foreign military occupation. This is a fact. Its denial is as clearly
a
defamation of Hungarians as it is defamation of Jews, and in civilized
places a criminal offense to them, to publicly deny that Holocaust ever
happened. We can not uphold Holocaust-denial as a criminal offense in
civilized countries if those defaming gentile nations are not held to the
same impeccable moral standards. Kornai hurts Jewish interests therefore
as much as he hurts the interests of Hungarians when he publicly denies
existence of "Magyar Szabadsagharc of 1956". A few days ago we were
reminded what enormous damage an extremist wing of Zionism can inflict
on Jews themselves. Thus, in case of lack of respect to Hungarians,
Kornai should refrain from such defamation out of respect to Jews.

This issue is not a matter of opinion. Those harboring a private opinion
that Holocaust/Hungarian Freedom Fight never happened can not be punished,
as anyone is entitled to harbor any opinion he/she wishes. It has been
established, however, as a fact of history (and in Hungary's case, only
after an agonizing 33 years of official denial!) that Holocaust/Hungarian
Freedom Fight did happen and proud small Nations insists on it fiercely
that no one can defame her by its public denial and be left unpunished.

"Cheap excuses", in the form of wrangling over semantics of Holocaust/
Hungarian Freedom Fight, or over the exact number how many died, ring
hollow and an in addition to the injury of defamation itself they are an
insult to decency. It is simply pitiful but revealing for Kornai that he
tries to
get off the hook by mistranslating "Szabadsagharc" to "War of
independence". That would be "Fuggetlensegi Haboru" in Hungarian, while the
target of
Kornai's denial was "Szabadsagharc". Literally "Freedomfight".

("Szabadsag" and "Fuggetlenseg" are two quite distinct words, and they have
exact equivalents in English; "Freedom" and "Independence", respectively.
Just as "Harc" and "Haboru" are distinct and their exact equivalents are
"Fight" and "War", respectively).

Since Kornai may have looked up his original defamation in old "Forum"
issues, where Dr.Pellionisz used the above obvious argument as well, it is
conceivable that Kornai expects me to deny here Holocaust in some revenge.
Thus, he is quick to try to trick my phone number, driver's licence
number, etc. One wonders, why. Do you also want my "Szemelyi Szam", and/or
Social Security Number or, in appropriate Hungarian, "Ha't a f**zom nem
ke'ne?" Do some volunteer police work (onkentes rendor) will you, dear kapo,
if that is your true spirit! But get smart. First, ever occurred to you
that unlisted numbers you will not find in the book? Second, learn that
one can telnet into an account, thus I can very well be in Budapest (or in
Timbuktu, for that matter). Third, that although I did not give you my
social security number, nor my credit card numbers (nor would *you* give
the time of the day to one who denies Holocaust), keep in your mind that
the inverse of Brody's song is not necessarily true: "Szemelyi igazolvany,
VAN, tehat en LETEZEM" ("Szemelyi igazolvany", NINCS, tehat en NEM
LETEZEM). (Sorry English speaking readers, these are words from a cutting
pop song in late Kadarism. Tongue-in-cheek suggested much needed
attitude-adjustment for communists, for whom anyone other than an
"ID card holder" was simply "non-person". Perhaps Kornai remained too long
in a police state.)

I did prove that I am an actual person, as I know no other entity capable
of insisting on dignity, rejection of all defamation. Now it is *your* turn
again, to show that you are also an "actual person", capable of dignity.
That is, you can bring yourself to mustering some respect to Hungarian
Freedom Fighters - thus offering them a humble apology. And do not worry,
I will get the message, too. Without anyone calling my unlisted number,
cursing during wee hours into my phone. No need for anyone to use my
drivers' licence or my credit cards, either. Those interested in my
human response can reach me at Szucs_Andras@ public.siliconvalley.com,
and even if an inhuman shows up at the other end, an actual person will be
responding.

@@ This message was submitted three times over the course of two days
already but came back with three different excuses. It is unfair for
a debate to suppress on side @@

..no, not to me. It would not matter if I did not exist "as an actual
person". (BTW: who does Kornai think write this letter if not "an actual
person", an actually "living person"?)

It is not I who needs an apology.

Kornai must apologize to the Hungarian Freedom Fighters for his defamation
of their heroic struggle and too often of their paramount sacrifice.
Hungarians risked, and lost, their lives in fight for freedom of Hungary
from foreign military occupation. This is a fact. Its denial is as clearly
a
defamation of Hungarians as it is defamation of Jews, and in civilized
places a criminal offense to them, to publicly deny that Holocaust ever
happened. We can not uphold Holocaust-denial as a criminal offense in
civilized countries if those defaming gentile nations are not held to the
same impeccable moral standards. Kornai hurts Jewish interests therefore
as much as he hurts the interests of Hungarians when he publicly denies
existence of "Magyar Szabadsagharc of 1956". A few days ago we were
reminded what enormous damage an extremist wing of Zionism can inflict
on Jews themselves. Thus, in case of lack of respect to Hungarians,
Kornai should refrain from such defamation out of respect to Jews.

This issue is not a matter of opinion. Those harboring a private opinion
that Holocaust/Hungarian Freedom Fight never happened can not be punished,
as anyone is entitled to harbor any opinion he/she wishes. It has been
established, however, as a fact of history (and in Hungary's case, only
after an agonizing 33 years of official denial!) that Holocaust/Hungarian
Freedom Fight did happen and proud small Nations insists on it fiercely
that no one can defame her by its public denial and be left unpunished.

"Cheap excuses", in the form of wrangling over semantics of Holocaust/
Hungarian Freedom Fight, or over the exact number how many died, ring
hollow and an in addition to the injury of defamation itself they are an
insult to decency. It is simply pitiful but revealing for Kornai that he
tries to
get off the hook by mistranslating "Szabadsagharc" to "War of
independence". That would be "Fuggetlensegi Haboru" in Hungarian, while the
target of
Kornai's denial was "Szabadsagharc". Literally "Freedomfight".

("Szabadsag" and "Fuggetlenseg" are two quite distinct words, and they have
exact equivalents in English; "Freedom" and "Independence", respectively.
Just as "Harc" and "Haboru" are distinct and their exact equivalents are
"Fight" and "War", respectively).

Since Kornai may have looked up his original defamation in old "Forum"
issues, where Dr.Pellionisz used the above obvious argument as well, it is
conceivable that Kornai expects me to deny here Holocaust in some revenge.
Thus, he is quick to try to trick my phone number, driver's licence
number, etc. One wonders, why. Do you also want my "Szemelyi Szam", and/or
Social Security Number or, in appropriate Hungarian, "Ha't a f**zom nem
ke'ne?" Do some volunteer police work (onkentes rendor) will you, dear kapo,
if that is your true spirit! But get smart. First, ever occurred to you
that unlisted numbers you will not find in the book? Second, learn that
one can telnet into an account, thus I can very well be in Budapest (or in
Timbuktu, for that matter). Third, that although I did not give you my
social security number, nor my credit card numbers (nor would *you* give
the time of the day to one who denies Holocaust), keep in your mind that
the inverse of Brody's song is not necessarily true: "Szemelyi igazolvany,
VAN, tehat en LETEZEM" ("Szemelyi igazolvany", NINCS, tehat en NEM
LETEZEM). (Sorry English speaking readers, these are words from a cutting
pop song in late Kadarism. Tongue-in-cheek suggested much needed
attitude-adjustment for communists, for whom anyone other than an
"ID card holder" was simply "non-person". Perhaps Kornai remained too long
in a police state.)

I did prove that I am an actual person, as I know no other entity capable
of insisting on dignity, rejection of all defamation. Now it is *your* turn
again, to show that you are also an "actual person", capable of dignity.
That is, you can bring yourself to mustering some respect to Hungarian
Freedom Fighters - thus offering them a humble apology. And do not worry,
I will get the message, too. Without anyone calling my unlisted number,
cursing during wee hours into my phone. No need for anyone to use my
drivers' licence or my credit cards, either. Those interested in my
human response can reach me at Szucs_Andras@ public.siliconvalley.com,
and even if an inhuman shows up at the other end, an actual person will be
responding.

@@ This message was submitted two times already but was sent back with
two different excused. It is unfair for a debate to suppress on side @@

 ..no, not to me. It would not matter if I did not exist "as an actual
person". (BTW: who does Kornai think write this letter if not "an actual
person", an actually "living person"?)

It is not I who needs an apology.

Kornai must apologize to the Hungarian Freedom Fighters for his defamation
of their heroic struggle and too often of their paramount sacrifice.
Hungarians risked, and lost, their lives in fight for freedom of Hungary
from foreign military occupation. This is a fact. Its denial is as clearly
a
defamation of Hungarians as it is defamation of Jews, and in civilized
places a criminal offense to them, to publicly deny that Holocaust ever
happened. We can not uphold Holocaust-denial as a criminal offense in
civilized countries if those defaming gentile nations are not held to the
same impeccable moral standards. Kornai hurts Jewish interests therefore
as much as he hurts the interests of Hungarians when he publicly denies
existence of "Magyar Szabadsagharc of 1956". A few days ago we were
reminded what enormous damage an extremist wing of Zionism can inflict
on Jews themselves. Thus, in case of lack of respect to Hungarians,
Kornai should refrain from such defamation out of respect to Jews.

This issue is not a matter of opinion. Those harboring a private opinion
that Holocaust/Hungarian Freedom Fight never happened can not be punished,
as anyone is entitled to harbor any opinion he/she wishes. It has been
established, however, as a fact of history (and in Hungary's case, only
after an agonizing 33 years of official denial!) that Holocaust/Hungarian
Freedom Fight did happen and proud small Nations insists on it fiercely
that no one can defame her by its public denial and be left unpunished.

"Cheap excuses", in the form of wrangling over semantics of Holocaust/
Hungarian Freedom Fight, or over the exact number how many died, ring
hollow and an in addition to the injury of defamation itself they are an
insult to decency. It is simply pitiful but revealing for Kornai that he
tries to
get off the hook by mistranslating "Szabadsagharc" to "War of
independence". That would be "Fuggetlensegi Haboru" in Hungarian, while the
target of
Kornai's denial was "Szabadsagharc". Literally "Freedomfight".

("Szabadsag" and "Fuggetlenseg" are two quite distinct words, and they have
exact equivalents in English; "Freedom" and "Independence", respectively.
Just as "Harc" and "Haboru" are distinct and their exact equivalents are
"Fight" and "War", respectively).

Since Kornai may have looked up his original defamation in old "Forum"
issues, where Dr.Pellionisz used the above obvious argument as well, it is
conceivable that Kornai expects me to deny here Holocaust in some revenge.
Thus, he is quick to try to trick my phone number, driver's licence
number, etc. One wonders, why. Do you also want my "Szemelyi Szam", and/or
Social Security Number or, in appropriate Hungarian, "Ha't a f**zom nem
ke'ne?" Do some volunteer police work (onkentes rendor) will you, dear kapo,
if that is your true spirit! But get smart. First, ever occurred to you
that unlisted numbers you will not find in the book? Second, learn that
one can telnet into an account, thus I can very well be in Budapest (or in
Timbuktu, for that matter). Third, that although I did not give you my
social security number, nor my credit card numbers (nor would *you* give
the time of the day to one who denies Holocaust), keep in your mind that
the inverse of Brody's song is not necessarily true: "Szemelyi igazolvany,
VAN, tehat en LETEZEM" ("Szemelyi igazolvany", NINCS, tehat en NEM
LETEZEM). (Sorry English speaking readers, these are words from a cutting
pop song in late Kadarism. Tongue-in-cheek suggested much needed
attitude-adjustment for communists, for whom anyone other than an
"ID card holder" was simply "non-person". Perhaps Kornai remained too long
in a police state.)

I did prove that I am an actual person, as I know no other entity capable
of insisting on dignity, rejection of all defamation. Now it is *your* turn
again, to show that you are also an "actual person", capable of dignity.
That is, you can bring yourself to mustering some respect to Hungarian
Freedom Fighters - thus offering them a humble apology. And do not worry,
I will get the message, too. Without anyone calling my unlisted number,
cursing during wee hours into my phone. No need for anyone to use my
drivers' licence or my credit cards, either. Those interested in my
human response can reach me at Szucs_Andras@ public.siliconvalley.com,
and even if an inhuman shows up at the other end, an actual person will be
responding.

E1va Balogh writes:
> "freedom fight." I think that Andras is defining this "war of independence,"
> too narrowly.
Perhaps I do. Certainly "fredom fight" is a term that has no firm definition
of the sort that "war of independence" has, and "szabadsa1gharc" could be
translated by both. Yet in these matters the comparison is inevitably to
1848-1849, where there was a freedom fight by any definition, no matter how
narrow.

> Again, I think that Andras's definition is too narrow. He is defining war as
> a series of pitched battles.
Yes. So we have agreement as to the lack of _military_ engagement.

> But there is such thing as guerilla warfare, or urban guerilla warfare.
Next comes the issue of _paramilitary_ engagement. There is no doubt there
were such engagements, and freedom fighters distinguished themselves in
those. But there was no serious paramilitary resistance after November 4,
except around Pe1cs, where miners took to the hills and it was *months*
before the Russian military could pacify the region. Do we agree at least
as to the facts on this matter, or am I missing something?

> And considering what Budapest looked like even before
> November 4 it was a fairly serious encounter.
It was, prior to the full-scale invasion.

> Sure, the army more or less remained neutral. The officers often sent the
> recruits home, instead of sending them against the Russians or the secret
> police.
It is good to see one's points corroborated by a professional historian, who
was also an eyewitness. So we agree, there was no military action.

> But again, I think Andras's definition of the word "hero" is too
> narrow. According to him only those were heroes who fought arms in hand.
I never said that. All I said was that such people were obviously heroes.

> I agree with Peter there are other ways of fighting, for example with pen in
> hand (...)
> martial law was introduced: if you were caught with a weapon in your pocket
> you could be executed on the spot. And many were. (...)
> publish an underground paper when every night the Russians came to search the
> dormitory from top to bottom. And going to illegal student organization (...)
The debate was not about heroism, it was about war of independence. Broadly
speaking, I consider anybody heroic who carried a gun, published an
underground newspaper, or did anything that risked execution or a long jail
sentence. But altogether, there wasn't a whole lot of guerilla fighting after
November 4, there was no "Ma1rciusban U1jra Kezdju2k" and by May 1 people
took part in the parade...

Since E1va likes personification of international conflicts, let me
offer a bitter post-WWII joke in which the "liberating" Russian
soldiers decide to rape the wife. They draw a circle in the dust and
tell the husband that he must stay inside that circle and not utter a
word.  Afterwards, the wife complains to the husband that he didn't
show any bravery in the face of this terrible situation and made no
effort to save her virtue. So the husband responds: what, I showed no
bravery?  I stepped out of the circle not once but twice!

> Well, I don't quite know who was spreading this "emigre myth," I always
> thought that everybody admitted that only very few people left for strictly
> political reasons. But there were quite a few of us who did.
Well, is it "very few" or is it "quite a few"? I offered the figure
10% which sort of fits both: very few in relative terms, but quite a
few in absolute terms, considering the size of the emigration wave.
Would you agree to the statement that only a minority (anywhere
between 5% and 25%) of those who left would have risked hanging or
jail by staying?

My argument is that if the majority of those who left were so active
in paramilitary resistance (I take paramilitary in the broadest sense,
including underground newspapers, couriers, what have you) how come
they had so little impact? My conclusion from the lack of impact is
that actually not so many were involved in paramilitary resistance. Or
maybe this resistance was singularly ineffectual, sort of like
stepping out of the circle but stopping there.

Andra1s Kornai

Isn`t there an unhealthy minority of people in government/armed
forces that were amongst those (whether in backing, giving the orders or
commiting the actually deed) who fired on the people/freedom fighters in
1956 - i.e. amongst the Avo; who are now, I might add, advertising their
great allegiance to the Hungarian nation?!


Karcsi

1. The term "freedom fighters" were used in the western press in 1956 and
1957. it is clearly associated in the mind of westerners and most historians
with the revolution of 1956 in Hungary.

2.There was plenty of military action between October 24 and October 26.

3. Nobody have counted how many out of the 200,000 refugees were active
during the revolution. I believe that their proportion is higher than those
who stayed behind vs. ten million.

4. How do you measure "impact"? How do you measure the impact of 1956?
Life in Hungary was different after 1956. Why? The Hungarian communist right
 (munich, Revai etc) were defeated in 1957. The post-November resistance,
including the work of the Workers Councils may have had theri impact.

5. Sexist jokes do not help us understand 1956.
Sincerely,
Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

Isn`t there an (un)healthy minority of people in government/armed
forces that were amongst those (whether in backing, giving the orders or
commiting the actually deed) who fired on the people/freedom fighters in
1956 - i.e. amongst the Avo; who are now, I might add, advertising their
great patriotism?!



Karcsi

My submission, answering Kornai's denial of "Szabadsagharc",
has been submitted five times over three days. All came back to me
with different "excuses".  For posting, I used both ""
that has always worked in the past, and tried also the suggested
"" addresses. Interestingly, "bounced"
messages came via "HUEARN.SZTAKI.HU". It is also of interest that my
simple announcement ("do this") could be successfully posted by the
exact same procedure I used with my answer to Kornai.

If postings are "censored" e.g. in Budapest to assure a nice
one-sided "debate", would be fair to let readers of "Hungary"
know about the activity of a "moderator" and the rules used.

Eva,in any privatization,the question any one asks is,what is the interest
of the Hungarian public by selling off the energy sector? I for one,say NONE
in the case of MVM! (Hungarian Electric Co.) As soon as MVM will be privati-
zed,the private operator,will be continuously asking:What is my minimum
acceptable maintenance level and why should I do any more than that, if it
reduces my profitability? Why indeed? If they bought MVM as it stands today,
they could still make a lot of money by reducing costly maintenance invest-
ments and living off the "Gold-Plating" for a few years.They would look ever
so much more efficient than MVM does now. But it will be a false economy.Not
even the most efficient management can defeat the laws of physics.Things
break down,often, unpredictably.Like taking care of your car,the rule for
electrical system maintenance is "pay me now or pay me later". Will a priva-
tized,profit-seeking utility industry be able to maintain the high level of
reliability and accountability that we Hungarians now take for granted?
Eva Balogh say "of course we will" But how do we know they will? Well,don't
hold your breath.BUSINESS IS BUSINESS!
Toth Laci

It is a tragic aspect of the most recent history of Hungary that
Kornai and his extremist likenesses have apparenty no idea whatsoever
what they are doing to Hungarians. Let me try to make some translations
of his defamation of Hungarians (that denial of the Hungarian Freedom
Fight of 1956 is), in a last-ditch attempt to make him at least
understand what he is doing. Even if he is not man enough to apologize
for his defamation of Hungarians.

His original posting (98 lines)in "Forum" #461 was entitled and
contained the following:

Original in Hungarian:
> ===============================================
> Felado : 
> Temakor: 56: a szabadsa1gharc elmaradt   ( 98 sor )
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bla-bla-bla *Az 56-os forradalmat nem ko2vette szabadsa1gharc. Ez
objekti1v to2rte1nelmi te1ny,..* Bla-bla *az a to2bbsza1zezer emigra1ns
aki 56-ban elmeneku2lt, nem volt szabadsa1gharcos aki e1lete1t e1s
ve1re1t a1ldozza fel magyarsa1ga1e1rt, hanem e1pp fordi1tva,
magyarsa1ga1t a1ldozta fel hogy az e1lete1t mentse* Bla-bla-bla
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

English Translation:
> ===============================================
Sender : 
Subject: 56: freedom fight did not take place   ( 98 lines )
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bla-bla-bla *The revolution of 56 was not followed by freedom fight.
This is an objective fact of history,..* Bla-bla *those many hundreds
of thousand of emigrees who escaped in 56, were not freedom fighters
who sacrificed their lives and their blood for their Hungarian sake,
but on the contraray, they sacrificed their Hungarian sake in order
to save their lives*  Bla-bla-bla
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

When I challenged Kornai a few days ago for his "Szabadsagharc
(Freedomfight)-denial" he re-stated, in "Hungary" #485:

"I also stand by my earlier assertion that 1956 was not a war of
independence (szabadsa1gharc)."

Apparently, Kornai understands neither the Hungarian language (as the
denied "Szabadsagharc" is *NOT* "War of Independence" but "Freedom
Fight"), nor does he understand Hungarian insistence on anti-defamation,
since in that case he would not try to get off the hook by cowardly
mistranslating his original statement from "Szabadsagharc" to "War of
Independence", adding insult to injury. And if such further insult to
the readers' intelligence, that he is cheating the the debate, weren't
enough, he piles up some more insults (Hungary #487):

"there is nothing dishonorable about escaping from a lost battle and
preserving yourself for another day. But the numbers don't add up:
over a hundred thousand left, and there were not a million left behind
dead (which is what you would expect with 10% lucky escapees)."

It is apparently hopeless to communicate to Kornai's soul (if any)
either in Hungarian or in English. Thus, let me try to "translate" how
his offense would look (and feel) in yet another language.

I wonder what Kornai and his extremist likenesses would feel, say and
do if a posting appeared in Hebrew in a list on the Hebrew language:

"Translation" for a list in Hebrew:
> ===============================================
Sender : 
Subject: 44: Holocaust did not take place   ( 98 lines )
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bla-bla-bla *The Endlosung of 44 was not followed by Holocaust.
This is an objective fact of history,..* Bla-bla *those many hundreds
of thousand of Jews who escaped 44, are not survivors of Holocaust
who sacrificed their lives and their blood for their Jewishness,
but on the contraray, they sacrificed their Jewishness in order
to save their lives*  Bla-bla-bla
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

When heartfelt protests arrived, Kornai would "answer" with a hollow
excuse, based on a cheap trick of translation:
"I also stand by my earlier assertion that 1944 was not a "complete
annihilation" of the Jews (Holocaust)."

And, in utmost display of both ignorance and arrogance, he would
"sooth" hurt feelings by the following "calming reconciliation":

"there is nothing dishonorable about some Jews escaping from Endlosung
and preserving themselves for another day. But the numbers don't add up:
many hundreds of thousands of Jews survived, and there werent six
million Jews left behind dead what you would expect in a proper total
annihilation of Jews (Holocaust), not even if you allow 10% for some
lucky escapees."

If Kornai (the reader) as a Jew would feel his blood boiling because of
his namesake's above postings, and some Jews even rush to attempt to
criminally persecute (sender) Kornai, the above fictive "translation"
perhaps helps some understand that "you can not have your cake and eat
it too": If Holocaust-denial (under any pretext) is a criminal
offense, defamation of Hungarians by denying their Freedomfight
need not be better tolerated, either.

It is telling that Kornai never noticed (had to be "told" by his friend!)
that his Freedomfight-denial "touched a nerve". ("Well, apparently I
touched some crazy nerve by denying Holocaust", -says Kornai, having
posted Holocaust-denial...). Therefore, it may well be that Kornai
(who posted Freedomfight-denial), makes nothing of either Freedomfight-
or Holocaust-denial, as a cynical "enfant terrible", who is not
therefore man enough to apologize for his offenses either, as he is
simply totally unaware of them. In that case, Kornai (just as the
extremist who hurt Jews also as a community by callously murdering Prime
Minister Rabin) has to be left for his own community to reckon with
extremism among themselves and take care of damages inflicted by their
few rotten apples.

Journalist Szatmari (a Jew himself) has just published such a book in
Hungary, and concludes exactly in the above (IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS),
also pointing out what if rotten apples are not taken care of.

Andras Szucs (?) might like to consider the effects of his postings.

The kind of highly charged polemics followed by him tends to be a turn-off for
most people brought up in Anglo-Celtic cultures and, as such, is potentially
quite counter-productive.

George Antony

I think Bela Liptak overlooked some sections of the so-called
 Slovak Language Law. There is a paragraph (unfortunately I throw
 it away, I will try to find it at home) that religious language
 is NOT controlled by the law, also there is an exception for
 a lot of other situations (like foreign language performances,
 These are kinda "good faith" exceptions, similar to the stupid
 Hungarian Laws, banning the use of particular symbols.)
 BTW,
 my senator Dick Lugar is supporting the American Language Law
 in the US... So, asking him to judge a similar law, may not be the best
 idea.

 The uglyness of the Slovakian Language Law is concealed in
 the last sections. They seriously fine everybody who breaks
 the law, and as far as I see they want to use the the money collected
 that way for nationalistic propaganda purposes.
 That is against any legal standards of the civilized world.
 They are not only making a stupid law, they are dead serious about that
 particular piece of legislation.
 Unlike, the innocently dumb Hungarian Symbol Law, it has an obvious
 immoral intention of forceful assimilation. It is not genocide of course.
 However, burglary is not murder, still very, very illegal.
 The timing of the law shows the actual purpose of it:
 Making the life of minorities miserable and doing so pleasing
 Matica Slovenska in order to stay in power forever. Quintessential Meciar.

  A small suggestion:
 I would not make comments which may be offensive for Slovaks.
 We had a nazi puppet-regime, too. We have a prime minister who is a former
 communist, too. We have ugly nationalistic forces back home, too.
 As a matter of fact, Slovak is only a second language in minority
 high-schools in Hungary. Also, try to use Slovak in birth certificate or
 in other official documents...

  See, I read outreagous anti-Slovak racist
 crap on the FORUM (together with anti-arab, anti-jewish, anti-romanian
 craps). As far as I recall Dr Liptak overlooked these
 comments, which lead toward an other modest suggestion.
 Dr Liptak seems to be associated with people who are very much like
 the people he is fighting against...
 A clarification of his position on this issue would be very
 important for me. (I do not refer to the mildly nationalistic, very, very
 patriotic, so called NEMZETI ideas. They are absolutely O.K)
 Blood-accusation against Jews,  hate-language against minorities,
 vicious, almost murderous verbal attacks against democratic parties
 like the SZDSZ (a party who supported Dr Liptak wholeheartedly in
 many issues) that is what should not be tolerated. (I add a new
 kind of disguting tendency. Some imbeciles began to accuse the
 late prime minister Jozsef Antall to have connection with the
 Ukrainian Maffia.)

 I want to thank in advance for Dr Liptak's consideration.
 Best regards,
 Gabor Elek

I willbe in Hungary around Christmas.  What may I expect in terms of local
celebration?