Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Washington, DC - Shakespeare: Twelfth Night (mind)  28 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Hungarian Nobel Prize Laurate (Chemistry) (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: no comment! (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
4 Hungarian electronic resources FAQ (mind)  602 sor     (cikkei)
5 translate lyrics please? (mind)  41 sor     (cikkei)
6 New list announcement (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
7 BBS 6.3 (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Hungarian and Sumerian? (mind)  45 sor     (cikkei)
9 Magyar Net Stuff (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
10 hungary.com - wwlink.com (mind)  56 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: adjonisten (was Re: vatra romaneasca, vagy mi a fen (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Hungarian and Sumerian? (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Washington, DC - Shakespeare: Twelfth Night (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Fifth Annual  Shakespeare Theatre Free For All

presents in
Michael Kahn's production
with Kelly McGillis as Viola 
Philip Goodwin as Malvolio 

TWELFTH NIGHT by W. Shakespeare

June 10-June 25, 1995
(Tuesday thru Sunday evenings at 7:30 pm)

Carter Barron Amphitheatre in Rock Creek Park
16th Street and Colorado Ave, N.W
Washington, D.C.

Free tickets are distributed at

1150 15th Street, NW (Washington Post)
450 7th Street NW (Shakespeare Theatre)
Carter Barron Amphitheatre

phone (202)-547-3230 ext. 124

Hungarian-American list, mailto:  
WWW,                       http://www.glue.umd.edu/~gotthard
+ - Re: Hungarian Nobel Prize Laurate (Chemistry) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > Zoli
Fekete,  writes:
> Well, the research awarded by Nobels is usually several years (often 
>decades) old,

If I remember well, the superacid stuff was publicated by Olah and
others in 1968-69.

+ - Re: no comment! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

: In article >,
: Wally Keeler > wrote:
: >"Don't bother to answer, your message will be sent back to you, unread!!!" Y
: >Mr or Ms V098TZ8T, seem to be a cyber-masturbator, a spineless jellyfish
: >unable to dialogue, only able to monologue, too insecure and cowardly to ope
: >yourself up to debate, secure only to hide behind anonymity in the darkness
: >with the worms. Coward!!!! COWARD!!!!!

: Gee, Wally, now this one was REALLY poetic stuff!!!
: Joe

Gee Joe, I thought you could recognize a stanza from a paragraph. The 
principle that I follow is that when garbage is thrown at me, I throw it 
back, preferably twice as much as was thrown at me. Get it? 2+2=8.
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
+ - Hungarian electronic resources FAQ (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Archive-name: hungarian-faq
Last-modified: 1995/05/29
Version: 0.99.2

This is part 1 of the FAQ for Hungarian news, discussions, and email. 
This part identifies what is available and gives basic instructions for
getting it.  Part 2 gives both fuller information and more complete 
instructions, as well as tips on how to search electronic archives for 
the information stored there.
# NOTE: Part 2 is included together with part 1 for this interim
#  release, expect separate files in the future! 
# 0.99.1: http://hix.mit.edu/, 'finger @hix.mit.edu'
# 0.99.2: news://news.iif.hu/hun.*, http://www.hungary.com/hudir/,
#  http://www.omri.cz/, gopher://gopher.eunet.cz,
#  http://www.iif.hu/hungarnet.html, lists Hungary Online, Hungary 
#  Report and , formatting URLs and minor editing
Updated versions of these Frequently Asked Questions of Hungarian 
interest (with some answers) are posted to Usenet (and reposted every 
three weeks automatically if there are no changes to them) and 
occasionally to the email lists concerned. The latest version is
available from the Usenet archives, such as 
ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/soc.culture.magyar/ and
 Notice that I am starting to show URLs - if you don't know what animal
they are ;-), don't worry just use FTP, Gopher or whatever for accessing
the sites shown after '://'! I intend this patch to be the last in the
venerable pre-1.0 series, look for the revamped version due Real Soon Now
;-) - a draft copy will be reposited in the SENDDOC archive:
http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/hungarian-faq.1-draft (also 
available via email, mailto:).

-Q: What services are available in Hungarian language?
-A: A number of them from Hollosi Information Exchange. Recently it 
acquired its own domain name: HIX.COM, with the different services 
individually addressable (so please forget about the old XMAIL syntax)! The
services may change before their description get updated here, so
please check its own HELP for the most current description!

There are 9 major services (check mailto: for others!): 
  HIR      -- daily news (edited in Budapest) Hirmondo
  KEP      -- videotext news from Hungarian Television's Kepujsag
  SZALON   -- moderated political discussion forum
  FORUM    -- unmoderated political discussion forum
  TIPP     -- politics-free questions, tips etc.
  GURU     -- computer-related questions
  VITA     -- non-political discussion forum (typically longer-winded then TIPP
  MOKA     -- jokes, humor (Hungarian and other)
  MOZAIK   -- semi-regular bits of news and other info,
               crossposts from the OMRI list and VoA gopher

 To get a long description (more than 600 lines!), use 
mailto: - the content of these letters are ignored. To 
{un}subscribe send email to , which refers to all 
available HIX subscriptions, or to , where NAME 
is any of the applicable HIX services. For more detailed description
please refer to mailto: (for this author cannot hope to 
stay up-to-date on the continously changing flavors of HIX ;-)).
 The postings for the HIX discussion lists are sent out daily in 
digested form. You can send your own submission to , 
where again NAME is to be substituted with the actual name of the
service you want to reach. 
 Note that the volume for some of these lists is becoming rather high,
eg. TIPP often digests dozens of messages in hundreds of lines daily! 
You ought to try targeting your audience properly in order to find
those who'd help with your questions; also keep in mind that readers
often answer to the list rather than the individual even when personal
reply is requested, so if you ask something it's a good idea to subscribe
also (even though technically it's not required) instead of just
addressing a list as a non-subscriber. A reminder to those who reply to
a post: always remember that list messages get sent to several
hundred readers, so consider personal email if the subject is not of
general interest! If you answer thru a list it's courteous to send a
personal copy (Cc: with most mailers) as well - this may reach the addressee
considerably earlier than the post distributed thru the list.
 The HIX server can also send out archived files (note that the copy of 
this 'hungarian-faq' is hopelessly outdated there!), see 
the SENDDOC function in its description. In case you have any problems 
or questions on the HIX services, please read through the automatic 
help response first. If you need human intervention you can reach 
mailto: - but keep in mind that list managers have to do 
plenty other than answering things already laid out in the Fine Manual.

 The above are also available interactively with full-text search 
capability through the Internet service gopher. If you know what that 
beast is (or dare to try anyway :-)) then enter: gopher HIX.ELTE.HU -
or use a WWW browser (like Mosaic or Netscape) for gopher://hix.elte.hu. 
You really should get a program (called a gopher client) to access 
these services, if you don't have one yet! To get started, you can 
check out comp.infosystems.gopher on Usenet, or its associated FAQ from 
SENDDOC computers/gopher.faq. Note that the most recent version of this 
FAQ can be gotten through gopher, or via anonymous ftp from the Usenet 
FAQ archive: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/gopher-faq. Those 
without FTP access should send e-mail to  with 
"send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources" in the body to find out how 
to do FTP by e-mail. If you can telnet, try the host 
consultant.micro.umn.edu (in Europe use gopher.sunet.se) - or look for 
a closer and less overloaded server in Yanoff's INTERNET SERVICES LIST 
(which also has more other Internet stuff than you ever wanted to know 
:-), available via ftp/gopher csd4.csd.uwm.edu, or email to 
). For email only connection there are 
gophermail servers. You can get started by sending mail to 
 (or ) with any or no subject 
and any or no message body. GopherMail will reply by sending you it's 
main gopher menu. To get detailed help on using gophermail, email 
 with 'help' in the Subject: line (the other server 
does not seem to support this function).
 There are other valuable documents of Hungarian interest in the 
gopher://hix.elte.hu archive, as well as links to the growing number of 
gopher servers in Hungary. You can start surfing the Hungarian gopherspace 
(that seems to be expanding by the day, so check out often) at 
gopher://gopher.elte.hu or gopher://sztaki.hu as well. Note that 
interactive Internet connections like gopher may be very slow, even timing 
out during peak hours - try times of lower network load when the response 
time is usually reasonable!

NEWEST DEVELOPMENT: as of Feb 19, 1995 there is a machine dedicated
to serving HIX! HIX.MIT.EDU has a WWW server (http://hix.mit.edu/)
as well as a gopher server, and is accessible via finger, too. Try 
'finger ' for the easiest access to the archives! There are 
going to be mirror sites in Hungary, use those from inside the country and 
the one at MIT from the rest of the world.
  A new server http://www.hungary.com/hudir/ catalogize hierarchically the 
growing number of Hungarian Internet info sources.

 For WWW users there is http://www.fsz.bme.hu/hungary/homepage.html with
links to a few hungarian www servers, including that of the Prime
Minister's Office at http://www.meh.hu, as well as to a great to a great
number of gophers and other resources. Again, the response time could
be quite good during off hours but may be unusable other times.

 There are Hungarian local newsgroups (see more on Usenet below) 
available through telnet to ludens.elte.hu, login with username GUEST 
(no password), and enter NEWS to start the newsreader (you can use the 
VMS online help to learn about it). The guest account is set up for 
accessing news://ludens.elte.hu/elte.diaklap (students' journal at 
Eotvos U.), but other newsgroups are available as well. (But please 
be considerate to the strained network resources of Hungarian sites - 
from abroad for non-local news use other providers). For 
ELTE-specific questions mailto:.
 Since May 95 our country has its own news hierarchy, available thru
news://news.iif.hu/hun.* - accessible globally via NNTP; if you
are reading Usenet from a major provider you may request that they
acquire the hun.* groups locally for you! If enough people request
this we'll get over the curent bottleneck with the HU network.

-Q: Are there Hungarian-related services primarily in English? 
-A:  is a discussion group providing rapid communication 
among those with interests in Hungarian issues. Subscribe by email via
mailto: using no subject and a message consisting 
only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY Yourfirstname Lastname. Once you have 
subscribed, any messages which you want to send to the group should be 
sent to the group address, mailto: (or just GWUVM
on BITNET). (This pattern of two addresses is 
standard: you turn your mail off and on at the "listserv" address, and 
you send mail to the listname address.  For example, to  unsubscribe, 
send the server the message SIGNOFF HUNGARY.  You can temporarily turn 
off you mail by sending listserv the message SET HUNGARY NOMAIL.  SET 
HUNGARY MAIL turns mail back on.) By default the listserv sends out
messages as they arrive, maybe several ones on busier days. If you
prefer daily digest format, you can issue the command SET HUNGARY DIGESTS
(again by sending it to the LISTSERV address); alternatively you can
subscribe to HUNGARY via HIX as mentioned above, and receive the same
format as the other lists by HIX. LISTSERV has many useful features,
most notably database search on the list archives - to learn more about
it, send commands like SEND HELP, SEND HELP DATABASE.
 Note that the form of addressing LISTSERV lists such as Hungary may depend
a great deal on your local network configuration and mailer software.
With a full-blown Internet mailer you're better off using the
gwuvm.gwu.edu alias for the host (thus the  and
 addresses), while for BITNET mailers you need
GWUVM only (and figure the local gatewaying to BITNET, like BITNET% for
most VAXMail installations). If you get stuck, help is much more likely
available next door than accross the world so ask around before posting
a query on problems with sending mail!
 Hungary Online is a "kind of Internet supplement" to the column of the
same title in Budapest Business Journal; to subscribe, send the word
"subscribe" mailto: (you'll get help from
its Majordomo server, if needed).
 The Hungary Report is a weekly English online update of news and analysis 
direct from Budapest each Sunday. To subscribe, send 
mailto: containing (in the body of 
the message, not in the headers) the single word "subscribe".
  is a group providing rapid communication 
mainly among those living in the USA with interests in Hungarian issues. 
Subscribe by mailto: using no subject and a 
message consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY .

On Usenet there is news:soc.culture.magyar, mostly in English, sometimes
bilingual, and occasionally Hungarian only. If you're not using Usenet,
ask around your site -- it's available on many Internet hosts on what
normally is known as the network news service. If you're under Unix, try
the newsreaders rn, nn, vn or trn; under other operating systems it may
be NEWSREADER or a similar name. If you don't have local access, try
FREENET-IN-A.CWRU.EDU, where you can request a permanent guest account 
with Usenet privileges (among other things).  
Use FTP to learn more about Usenet from the archive ftp://RTFM.MIT.EDU 
(starting with the file /pub/usenet/news.answers/news-answers-intro, 
which lists a number of alternative archives located in Europe as 
well). If you do not have anonymous FTP access, you can access the 
archives by mail server as well. To learn how, see Part Two of this FAQ 
or send an email message to mailto: with HELP 
and INDEX on separate lines of the body (make sure you put the dash in 
the address above!).
NOTE: RTFM used to be called differently, please use this new address
instead of the old one that's being phased out!
-Q: Are there reports and discussions about Hungary in its political and
geographical contexts?
-A: Several. You can get Daily Digests of the Open Media Research Institute
from mailto: (or simply 
 on BITNET) by sending the message
SUBSCRIBE OMRI-L Yourfirstname Lastname.  (Hungarian items in OMRI-L
are excerpted in MOZAIK of HIX which is also crossposted to the Usenet
news:soc.culture.magyar.)  The same listserv at Buffalo
also will subscribe you to the Middle European discussion list MIDEUR-L
or to POLAND-L or SLOVAK-L.  Send the usual SUBSCRIBE command.  On 
Usenet there is news:soc.culture.romanian, news:soc.culture.czecho-slovak, 
news:soc.culture.polish, and the gatewayed news:bit.listserv.mideur-l and 
news:bit.listserv.slovak-l; news:bit.listserv.hungary has been established, 
but many sites do not have it, and some of those
supposedly carrying lose some or all the posts. If you experience
sporadic distribution of any of the gatewayed lists complain to your
net-news administrator and/or Usenet carrier - you can always check the
list traffic by subscribing to the original email lists described above.
This is one of those problems where people in the know of your local
situation may be able to help you, but the hundreds of list-readers
scattered worldwide are most likely not! Since the gatewayed lists are
primarily LISTSERV based, the surest way to receive everything is via
email. If you prefer using Usenet newsreaders you find HIX's HUNGARY
digests posted to news:soc.culture.magyar (which group does not seem to
suffer the poor propagation affecting some of the bit.listserv groups).
Please notice that while the listserv groups are bi-directionally
gatewayed, ie. posts to them get propagated back to the original mailing
list, the posts coming from HIX to soc.culture.magyar are mere copies of
the mailing list messages - do not reply to the newgroups since your
answer won't reach the email readers (who constitute a likely large
 Speaking of limitations of distribution be aware that some commercial
Internet connection providers (most blatantly American Online)
established their own groups with topics overlapping existing Usenet
hierarchy. The utility of these local groups is seriously limited since
they are, unlike the open real Usenet newsgroups such as those 
mentioned above, are unavailable to anyone but their own subscribers 
(ie. a small domestic fraction of all the Internet/Usenet users 
worldwide). Please do not post to non-local groups saying how nice 
would be to use these specialized fora - we can not. Use the newsgroup
soc.culture.magyar or the mailing lists!

 The Central European Regional Research Organization (CERRO) can 
be joined at  with the command 
SUBSCRIBE CERRO-L Firstname Lastname.  This is a scholarly group
that deposits papers and the like in an electronic archive in Vienna.  The
archive is accessible ftp://wu-wien.ac.at, or gopher://gopher.wu-wien.ac.at,
http://www.wu-wien.ac.at. A repository for Voice of America
material accessible with gopher://gopher.voa.gov also contains some
information and news items relevant to the region. Archives of the OMRI
list mentioned above are at http://www.omri.cz/ (together with some other
related info, some RFE/RL material are forthcoming there too).
 CET On-Line, the on-line version of the daily English language radio news 
magazine Central Europe Today, is available freely by sending a message with 
the word SUBSCRIBE in the body mailto:
(or send the following in the body mailto:
	subscribe cet-online
). Its archives are at gopher://gopher.eunet.cz (or http://www.eunet.cz/),
and the list is excerpted on HIX-MOZAIK.

-Q: What are the network connections with Hungary, including BBS 
networks such as FidoNet?
-A: For a reasonably up-to-date picture of Internet see 
http://www.iif.hu/hungarnet.html - the development the net seems to
outstrip that of this FAQ ;-) (fortunately for HU, less so for my
readers). For most private users Fidonet linking personal computer BBS
systems may be a better connection alternative, but I could not get 
recent enough information on that to include here.
 Email is usually fast if you have the right address. For Internet 
mailings, don't forget to add a "hu" at the end for Hungary (eg.: 
); for Bitnet addresses, "huella" is in the 
nodename (ex.: ). 
(Note: huella.bitnet and ella.hu are equivalent.)
 There are three FidoNet nodes: Budapest NET (2:371/0); West Hungary Net
(2:372/0); and Tisza NET (2:370/0). If you want to write on the 
FidoNet, chances are you already know how. *PLEASE* find out what you 
are about to do instead of experimenting with the Hungarian net - don't
add to the problems for the folks in Hungary having to deal with the 
underdeveloped phone system and outrageous international tolls ;-<. For
further information I post a Fido-sheet separately from this FAQ, where
there are also telephone numbers and further addresses, but again: try 
to verify that you are mailing to a valid address (the BBS situation 
may have changed since the copy you are reading got updated - look for 
current FIDO listing on the net, or better yet contact the person you 
want to reach by other means first)!. If you can send Internet email 
and have the FidoNet address, you can write to it by transforming it to
appropriate .FIDONET.ORG format.

-Q: How do you contact someone in Hungary by email?
-A: If you don't know the address, ask by using the old technology of
pen, paper, and postage stamp (or telephone). 

 There are attempts to establish directory services in Hungary but 
their availability to the outside world has seemed sporadic so far. At 
the moment your best bet is to use HIX's RADIR database - see above. 
Requesting it via email with SENDDOC should be your last resort given 
its huge size and unwieldy structure, but you may be able to search it
more easily online with gopher. If you have some idea what institution
to check out, you may find an online directory service - many are
available, and could be reached thru the main hungarian gopher (or WWW)
mentioned above. Perhaps the biggest database is that of ELLA, to use it
telnet://hugbox.sztaki.hu:203 (ie. address a special port); note
that the opening screen uses special characters for the accented letters
but the data records have combinations of vowel plus ',: or " instead 
(ie. searching for hollo'si would retrive a record, but hollosi won't)!
 Alternatively you might check out Radir's user list (HIX's 
SENDDOC feature will tell you how) or send an inquiry to a discussion
group. Readers of Usenet's soc.culture.magyar and Bitnet's HUNGARY
discussion list may be able to help. Or you can send a query to the
postmaster of the Hungarian network or local server.  (See Part Two of
this FAQ for help.)
-Q: How are Hungarian accented letters usually represented?
-A: There are a number of solutions, mostly based on TeX. For starters
check out SENDDOC programs etex.Z and hion.Z from HIX (see above) and
also the babel system for LaTeX with Hungarian specific option,
available from FTP sites kth.se or goya.dit.upm.es. In pure ASCII
environment using English-only alphabet (such as traditional email and
Usenet posting) one could simulate accented letters with pairs of
characters; most commonly the linguistic notation is used where a long
vowel is marked with the numeral 1 (ko1r = ailment), a short "umlaut"
with a 2 (ko2r = circle), and a long one with a 3 (ko3r = the figure of
heart in the French card set). Some people prefer coding with
apostrophe, colon and (double) quotation marks (ko'r, ko:r and ko"r for
the above examples), but this results in more ambigous parsing (and
makes reading even harder in my opinion).

-Q: How should I send suggestions, hatemail etc. concerning this FAQ?
-A: I hereby solicit any additions, corrections, suggestions or
My primary email address is mailto:. *Please* note that 
due to the high volume of email messages without informative SUBJECT: 
lines get deleted without reading!

Begin the SUBJECT: line with the string ZFIX$KERDES (followed by a 
descriptive subject of your choice) to enable automatized mail handling.

 I'd like to be notified of archives storing this document (other than
the standard Usenet FAQ repositories, typically mirroring rtfm.mit.edu).
Also, if you see an outdated version online please request updating from
the administrator!
 In closing part 1 let me express the many thanks we all owe to Kent
Bales, whose superb work editing my first drafts made me possible to 
work out the current version. Of course all errors are still my 
responsibility. As you may notice the content as well as the format 
is still too much in a flux to claim exceeding the v1.0 limit ;-(, 
but the upgrade is still free :-).

NOTE: the following is included together with part 1 for this interim 
release, expect separate files in the future!
                Part 2  
Part 2 amplifies information on Hungarian news, discussions, and email 
and adds information about useful computer resources, computing in 
Hungary, and other such technical matters.
Updated versions of these Frequently Asked Questions of Hungarian 
interest (with some answers) are posted to Usenet and the email lists 
concerned about every two weeks.
Your access varies depending upon the net you operate within.  Bitnet 
discussion lists leave messages in your mailbox, and you send mail 
messages to all other list members by writing to the list address.  
Internet users can easily subscribe because the two networks have many 
"gateways" or nodes where the networks intersect.  Usenet and 
independents such as FidoNet are different.  They forward messages to 
and from their nodes, using Internet gateways whenever possible for 
long-distance relays, but they don't have access to Bitnet discussion 
lists.  (You, however, can have somebody you know who has Bitnet access
forward list messages to and for you.  This is frequently done.)  Many 
Internet and Usenet nodes participate in Usenet News, a world-wide, 
volunteer aggregation of discussion groups which one joins and 
participates in by calling up the discussion-group messages stored for 
that purpose.  More an extensive bulletin board than a mailbox, it is 
cheaper to operate because it uses much less memory.  All members of 
soc.culture.magyar, for example, read messages stored at a few sites; 
all members of Bitnet's HUNGARY read the same message stored in 
mailboxes all over the world. 
At Bitnet-Internet gateways, Bitnet users can usually get access to 
Usenet News by behaving as though they are Internet users.  (Ask how, 
locally.) Otherwise they can use Telnet (TELNET BBS.OIT.UNC.EDU or 
TELNET FREENET-IN-A.CWRU.EDU, where you can request a permanent guest 
account with Usenet privileges, among other things).  Independent nodes
usually don't give access to all Usenet News groups -- only to those 
most interesting to their users -- so make yourself heard if you use an
independent.  Commercial nets usually are the same, giving access to the
most popular groups on Usenet and other discussion networks.
Some Usenet groups and virtually all Bitnet lists store old messages in
archives, which can be searched by the fileserver or by FTP.  FTP (File
Transfer Protocol) is available on the Internet but, for technical 
reasons, not on Bitnet or the others.  Bitnet provides a retrieval 
service, however. Write to  with HELP as the message and you
will receive full instructions.  Some of them will be irrelevant to 
getting messages from the archives.  The concepts should become clearer
from what follows.  
First you must know what to ask for, and for a list that you know about
or belong to you can simply ask LISTSERV to tell you what's in the 
archive.  Say you want material from Bitnet's HUNGARY list.  Write 
 with the message LISTDOC HUNGARY, and you'll get 
back the name(s) of the archived files, probably listed by month.  You 
won't need FTP to get these. Commands for getting them, however, vary 
from list to list, group to group. To get E-EUROPE's list, you first ask

 the following: INDEX E-EUROPE.  Then, having found the 
files or month that you want, you send the command GET E-EUROPE 
filetype-thus-and-so (as determined from the index). Sometimes LISTSERV
will tell you the precise form of the the command, but it is good to 
have handy BITNET USERHELP, gotten from  with the 
FTP is a UNIX process which lets you transfer files from a distant 
computer to your own system if you're on Internet.  A good way of 
testing if it's available is simply to type FTP at your prompt.  If you
are prompted for an address, you've got FTP!  So either type the 
address you want or start again and do all on one line:
     ftp ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu
(This example is for the archive of the Humanities Computing Facility at
UCSB, thanks to Eric Dahlin).  Log on with the name "anonymous," and use
your e-mail address as a password.  Next, move to the directory 
containing the files by entering the command:     
     cd hcf  
Now that you're in the correct directory, you can get a list of all the
file names by entering the command:  
Then, to transfer any of the files to your own system, enter the
     get filename  
It's often wise to transfer first the file called "readme," which may 
show the contents of each of the files in the directory and certainly 
will tell you more about that directory.  If you don't know in advance 
what directory to change to, move through the directory tree using the 
"ls" command and wise guesses about where you want to go.  With luck, 
you'll get what you want.  The commands may be strange (if you're a 
stranger to UNIX, but you need only a few. UNIX is case-sensitive, so 
use lower-case letters, as indicated here.  
Finally, end your session with the "quit" command.  If "quit" won't get
you out, try "bye" or "logout" (or Ctrl-D from Unix).
(Anonymous FTP is also the usual method for getting public domain and 
"freeware" or "shareware" software from the many archives around the 
world.  The courtesy asked for by these archives is that for large 
transfers you use anonymous ftp only after hours, when machine time 
isn't needed for big jobs.) 
Most archive files are compressed, so you'll have to uncompress them.  
If you need to learn about this, ftp oak.oakland.edu, cd 
/pub/msdos/starter and get 00-index.txt. Text files are often simply 
ZIPped.  These can be downloaded all the way to your machine, then 
unzipped with an UNZIP program.  PKZIP and UNZIP are available through 
Gopher and locally from a BBS. 
There are shortcuts, so that you find precisely the file and its 
location(s) by searching a database.  In or near Canada, Telnet to 
(in NJ).  
Or you can TELNET a GOPHER, which will include FTP sites on its menu.  
Choose that option and, as with ARCHIE, give GOPHER names or key words 
to look up. What you'll get is a list of sites, complete with full 
directory pathways, to files containing in their names the word or words
you asked to be searched. Knowing this, you can confidently proceed to 
follow the Anonymous FTP retrieval instructions given above.  Or you can
let GOPHER do the work for you.  It will write the file to your computer
account, and you can then download it.
GOPHER is now in use at a number of sites around the world, including 
Vienna and Graz, so that Hungarian electronic archives should be 
searchable with Gopher's aid.  Gopher plugs right into Archie sites.  
Because it also usually contains electronic addresses for local users, 
it may soon be a good source for Central European e-mail addresses. 
CONSULTANT.MICRO.UMN.EDU is the grandparent GOPHER site, and you can get
a complete list of current GOPHERs from CONSULTANT.

 NOTE: the specifics given below for the network in Hungary is very outdated
(it originated sometime in early '93 at the latest)! I figure I better
leave it in here for the time being, for two reasons: 1) history 2) I
don't have the time to do the complete revisal needed just now ;-(. The
situation in general improved a lot since, the capacity (and complexity)
of international connections increased several times. As I mentioned
earlier, even the resource-intensive WWW connections work (most of the
time anyway) at acceptable speed.

Hungary's four domains (basically four separate lines) are these:
kfki.hu (Central Research Institute for Physics)
elte.hu (Eotvos University [Budapest])
sztaki.hu and all other *.hu (Automation and Computerization Institute,
            Hungarian Academy of Sciences)
huearn.bitnet and huella.bitnet.
They connect to the world as follows:
  ___      /| UUCP nodes |
 /   \____/  ------------
|  X  | X25  ------------
|  2  |-----| ELLA users |
/  5  \      ------------                                       To Linz,
\     /       -----------  dial-up  ------                      9.6 kbps
|  N  | X.25 |           |---------| UUCP |                         ^
|  e  |------|  sztaki   |   ...    ======                          |
/  t  /      | EUnet BB  |---------| nodes|                      X25|
\  w  \       -----------\          ------          SLIP    ---     |
|  o  |            |      `--------------------------------| H |    |
|  r  |       -----------           -----------            | B |----
|  k  |      |  gateway  |---------|           |    BSC    | O |
\    _/       -----------          |  HUEARN   |-----------| X |
 |__/ \            |               |           |            ---
       \X25   -----------           -----------
        \    |           |
         `---|   ELLA    |----(dial-up)
             |   (IIF)   |      users
Hungary has a connection to EARN (European Research Network) which is a
9.6 kbps leased line from Budapest to Linz. They use the same line 
through a multiplexer to connect the EUnet backbone to mcsun and the 
Internet. There is a local gateway between the EUnet backbone and the 
EARN  national backbone. It is possible to connect to the EUnet backbone
using the national X.25 network or dial-up lines up to 9.6 kbps speed.
There is also a central mailbox system called ELLA that individual users
can connect to.  Most universities and research institutes are connected
to the ELLA mail-only network (typical address: ).
Part One of this FAQ tells how to get addresses.  You can also ask the 
postmasters for help.  ELLA's is .  (Or ,
Internet style.)

 NOTE: Fidonet mail works with Hungarian BBS's but you have to know 
whom to reach. I will attempt to maintain a separate Fido posting to 
Usenet; please try to make sure you email to a valid address and in 
particular avoid using outdated sources on Hungarian BBS's (otherwise 
your misdirected trial burden the Hungarian network coordinator)!
The electricity is 220 volt, 50 cycles, but in fact it fluctuates a 
lot.  A battery driven laptop or notebook is your best bet.  You can 
drive a printer through a simple small converter, but check plug types 
in advance.  The Hungarian standard is two-pronged, and your computer or
printer may well be three-pronged.  The converter may also be 
three-pronged stepped down to two-pronged, but check before you leave.
Just in case, take along one three-prong to two-prong plug adapter, to 
if you want to plug in the battery charger and the printer at the same 
You want e-mail?  If you will be working at a university or research 
institute or large business, chances are you can get access to ELLA.  
But if it's just a visit, the best is to get on the FidoNet.  
-- Zoli Fekete, email:  (preferred, or )
    alternative addresses:  on the Cleveland Freenet
        on the UNC BBS
        (home of the late Agora ;-()
"For my assured failures and derelictions, I ask pardon beforehand of my
betters and my equals in my calling." - Rudyard Kipling
 Zoli  (note my old full address @bcuxs2 is retired)
"For my assured failures and derelictions, I ask pardon beforehand of my
betters and my equals in my calling." - Rudyard Kipling
+ - translate lyrics please? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

i was wondering if someone could translate this song for me, it's from
east's album ja'te'kok (games)... my knowledge of hungarian is
limited and i'm having some difficulty... it's entitled
messze a felho"kkel (far away with the clouds).  thanks in advance.

Messze a felho"kkel

Az e'n felh"oim ba'ra'nyfelho"k
Fehe'r lepke tu:ndo:klo"
Vigye'l engem a felho"k ko:ze'
Ott me'ly a csend e's madarak sza'llnak

A'lmok vigyetek, fogja'tok meg ke't kezem
Adjatok nekem sza'rnyakat, had repu:ljek
Messze a felho"kkel

Felho"k ko:zt fent, e'g s fo:ld ko:zo:tt
Lepke ha'ta'n sze'du:lten sza'llok
Megige'z a fe'ny, mely arcomhoz e'r
Vibra'lo ke'k a va'llamon ta'ncol

A'lmok vigyetek, fogyja'tok meg ke't kezem
Adjatok nekem sza'rnyakat, had repu:ljek
Messze a felho"kkel

i have a sketchy idea of what it's about, but would appreciate
a good translation.. :)

clive mccaig
queens university belfast
northern ireland.

| A gondolat u'gy fa'jt, Lassan u'rra' lett a va'gy, Tudni azt, hogy hol      |
| vagyunk, Megtudni, mie'rt vagyunk, E'letu:nk tala'n, Egy furcsa la'toma's,  |
| Melybo"l egyszer e'bredu:nk, E's mege'rtju:k mie'rt lettu:nk, Ha            |
| felperzselt ablakodban a'llsz, Ra'do:bbensz, hogy valo'sa'g, Ta'tongo'      |
| labirintus va'r, De e'bren tart az o"si va'gy.       - East "Ablakok" -     |
+ - New list announcement (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

There is a brand new maillist EEUROPE-BUSINESS,  which 
will be dedicated to doing business in Eastern Europe - with 
clear mission that subscribers will be able  to post there their 
offers and requests, commercial or non-commercial (as long 
as they are related to Eastern Europe), business leads (from 
and for Eastern Europe) and advertisements (for goods which
are saleable to Eastern Europe) will be welcomed (not discouraged).
The list would NOT be moderated - this is intentional feature 
(abusers will be flamed by other subscribers :-))) )   Maillist is 
available in digest form (as an option) - in case that traffic get heavy.

You can subscribe by sending mail  <SUBSCRIBE eeurope-business>
to "". The list is controlled by sending mail to
"".  If you send it a message with "help" in 
the message body, it will respond by sending you a list of the 
commands it knows. Mailing address for posting is 

Ross Hedvicek  
+ - BBS 6.3 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> ========================================================================
> ========================================================================

06/13/95 NEW BRUNSWICK CHAPTER -- will be holding its next chapter meeting
         on Sunday, June 18 at 6 p.m. at the Hungarian Heritage Center.
         Major topics include the following:
         - The AAYH-Open to be held next month near Pittsburg;
         - The plan for next year's chapter events, including the
           reception with Hungarian foreign students, the Round Table
           seminar series, the cavehaz, and Jumpstart;
         - The National Convention, which New Brunswick will sponsor;
         - Recent advances by the World Wide Web project;
         - The upcoming meeting with New Brunswick Hungarian-American
           community leaders;
         - An assessment of the information booth at the festival.
         (Bernard Tamas)

AAYH email:		
AAYH WWW:		http://www.jvnc.net/~kerekes/
+ - Re: Hungarian and Sumerian? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Peter Hidas writes:

> There is no connection.
 Wait a second. The question that is being discussed is the degree of 
 relationship and not origin. Certainly, some folks get into this subject 
 with two left feet or two left hands and create some pretty far fetched
 theories. But let's look at some information that is interesting. Most of 
 the historians working on the Sumerian subject agree that the indications 
 are that these folks migrated into the area from the north and were not 
 originally native to the area. Nobody seems to know from how far north 
 their migration started. (Similar problem as with the Greeks.) But we can 
 be sure that it was some 5,000  or more years ago. The language is 
 agglutinative, in this aspect it is related to Hungarian and other 
 Finn-Ugor and Ural-Altaic (or the lately created Caucasian) languages.
 While there are words that are conjured into Hungarian sounding words,  
 many of them are not connected to Hungarian. This is also a difficult 
 correlation because Hungarian is a mixture of Ugric and other languages. 
 Probably, Sumerian is also a mixtture (In my opinion migrations always  
 bring fellow travellers and the assimilation of their languages). 
 Analyzing solely written language similarity is difficult even from more 
 recent times, just see the mangling of the Latin hard K sound (written as 
 C) by most Latin languages, it seems to have been surviving in some cases, 
 as an example, only in non-related languages like German which is not a 
 Latin origin language ( i.e.Kaiser). The similarity based solely on  
 language between Hungarian and some Finno-Ugric languages is very large 
 even for population splits assumed to have taken place much later.

 The -- to me -- striking interest is the Sumerian symbol for "to hear" 
 which is a fish, in Hungarian (for those who do not know it) the words are 
 *hal* for "fish" and *hall* for to "hear". Now this is a single word and 
 it will not bring spring, but it is interesting.

 I feel that stating that there is no connection is getting close, in 
 validity, to the statement that there is lineal descent. Neither are 
 exactly accurate. Unfortunately, this subject seems to be discussed only 
 after the discussers decide that they are convinced one way or another and 
 not by carefully and painstakingly analyzing ALL of the information 

 In my opinion, it is possible that the Sumerians, or some elements of them
 who had influence on their language, lived in neighboring areas of the 
 people (one of those being Hungarians) who today use agglutinating 
 languages. Now back to building that time machine.

+ - Magyar Net Stuff (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hello All--

My father is finally going to have some limited net access.  He will have a 
freenet account that will allow him to have some limited email.  He is 
native Hungarian and is interested in poetry and politics as well as 
anything else about Hungary.  Is there a good email list for him that would 
only have a few good messages (news reports or whatever).  He probably won't 
have time to check his mail all the time but it would be nice for him to get 
around 5 messages a week on Hungary.

Thanks for your help!

Kenneth Bacso
+ - hungary.com - wwlink.com (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I have received several questions regarding HUNGARY.COM and the 
Here is what you can find about them using 'whois'

> --------------------------------------------------------------
World-Wide Link, Inc. (WWLINK-DOM)
   234 Broadway, Suite 2B
   Cambridge, MA  02139

   Domain Name: WWLINK.COM

   Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
      Hollosi, Jozsef  (JH548)  

   Record last updated on 31-May-95.

   Domain servers in listed order:

> --------------------------------------------------------------
Hungarian Information eXchange (HUNGARY-DOM)
   341 Lowden Court
   Long Branch, NJ 07740

   Domain Name: HUNGARY.COM

   Administrative Contact:
      Hollosi, Jozsef  (JH225)  
      (212) 224-4914
   Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
      Groves, Jonathan  (JG204)  
      (617) 547-4731

   Record last updated on 14-Jul-94.

   Domain servers in listed order:

> --------------------------------------------------------------- 

Whats is funny :-) , I called my 
<a href="http://www.glue.umd.edu/~gotthard/hir.html"> HIR </a> page first
HIX - Hungarian Information eXchange , then I gave it up because of the 
resemblance to "hicks" , something you do not want to do if you live 
in the USA , again :-)   

( I hope these are the same addresses you asked about )


Hungarian-American list, mailto:  
WWW,                       http://www.glue.umd.edu/~gotthard
+ - Re: adjonisten (was Re: vatra romaneasca, vagy mi a fen (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

CLARY Olivier ) wrote:
: In article >  
(Janos Szamosfalvi) writes:
: >a short Magyar proverb: "Amilyen az adjonisten
: >olyan a fogadjisten".  (In English: "What you give is what you get.")

: I feel disappointed by this translation, the original is much better!
: and seems to speak more about a human relation, an attitude.

This was the closest I could come up while composing my post.  I do 
know that it's not a very good translation, but translating proverbs, 
or lyrics is sometimes very difficult.
+ - Re: Hungarian and Sumerian? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

AND Books ) wrote:
: Janos Szamosfalvi ) wrote:
: : RickB771 ) wrote:
: : : Does anyone have any information concerning the relationship between the
: : : Hungarian and ancient sumerian language? 

: : It's a hypothesis that has never been proved and not very many people 
: : believe this nowadays.   Hungarian is part of the Finno-Ugrian family, 
: : and in a larger scale, it's in the Ural-Altai (sp?) group of languges.  
: : Whether Sumer belonged to this group -- it's a very tough question
: : and no one knows the answer.    This Sumer Magyar relationships is 
: : like the Hun Hungarian relationship.

: i agree, but it's nice to think about the possible connections... 
: Carlton Coon is professionally tenuous to these ideas however, his
: approach to physical anthro has received plenty of noise for being
: superfluous, if not outright off-track.

There are a few linguists working on to find the "mother of all 
tongues"  (the language that gave birth to all existing languages).
I believe it's a moot point because language changes so fast that 
everything is almost completely blurred beyond 10,000 or so years.

They did, however, came up with words that similar in most languages, 
such as the words for water.   Most of them start with the sound [v]
and they somehow deduced that the original word was `wede'.