An absolutely disgusting article appeared in the September 2 issue
of *Nepszava." I found it so disgusting that I was contemplating sending a
fax to *Nepszava* and tell them what I think. At the end I decided to bag it
because too much time elapsed between the appearance of the article and my
reading it.

        It is about the new anti-smoking law which had been prepared for
discussion in parliament for the fall session. There have been discussions
about this law for years but the Ministry of Public Welfare (Nepjoleti
Miniszterium) seemed to be either unwilling or unable to prepare an
anti-smoking law. At the end the job was given to a professor of law who for
a lump sum of money prepared what appears to be a fairly strict--by European
standards at least--law concerning smoking in public. So, this has been in
the works for a considerable amount of time but as usual in Hungarian
political life, the grounds were not properly prepared for such a law. That
is, no public education concerning the ill effects of smoking was ever
attempted. The law, practically unannounced, simply appears from nowhere.

        The early reaction to the announcement of the forthcoming proposal
was not auspicious. One highly regarded writer and intellectual (sorry, I
forgot his name) simply announced that thisproposal was the "stupidest
thing" he has ever heard. A journalist (most likely a non-smoker) wrote a
whole article on the responsibility of the intellectuals and his shock at
reading this great man's reactions. Now, a stupid, irresponsible journalist
(and a nonsmoker at that) opened his mouth with disastrous results. His name
is Laszlo Seres. (And I don't care if Mr. Seres's friends tell him that an
awful person called Eva Balogh called him ignorant, irresponsible and stupid.)

        Mr. Seres doesn't even seem to know the background of the proposed
anti-smoking law. Somehow he thinks that the appearance of the Hungarian law
has something to do President Clinton's latest efforts at restricting
availability of cigarettes to teenagers. That is sin number one! A
journalist must do some research before embarking on a topic. He should have
realized that Clinton's signing this or that has nothing to do with the
Hungarian law. It is nothing else but a coincidence. Sin number two: he is
writing his article with the firm belief that restrictions on advertising of
smoking and drinking is somehow a against the "free market." Surely, we
should also advertise heroine, for example, and if we don't, well, it is
against the laws of the free market! Sin number three: he is bemoaning the
fact that the Hungarian tobacco industry (all American and English firms)
from here on will not support Hungarian sports and surely this is a very
important consideration. After making some incredible references to "public
health," "positive life style" he announces that all banning of advertising
of tobacco and alcohol is simply "confusing." He then announces that
Hungarians "always managed to import the worst features of American
democracy," in this case, ban of smoking at the workplace. He then announces
that "the passive smokers will have such rights which the Gypsies, the
disabled, and the gays can't even dream of." And as if these stupid
statements weren't enough he adds the following: "the law will separate
smoking and non-smoking spouses and make them sit in different parts of the
restaurant." As far as health is concerned he thinks that such law, whether
in the United States or in Hungary, has nothing to do with health issues. It
is only rhetoric and it has something to do with the presidential elections
in the States and in Hungary--and I am afraid, I will have to quote this in
Hungarian because I am not sure whether I can comprehend its meaning either
in Hungarian or in English--"idehaza meg a tudorakos, szivbeteg ember csupan
az ugyszinten beteg egeszegugy budzsejet terhelo tenyezo, a
biztositotarsasagoknak meg rizikofaktor." Well, I am not sure what Mr. Seres
is talking about exactly but it has something to do with patience with lung
cancer and heart disease and medical insurance. I guess, his thinks that the
only reason we don't want people of dying of lung cancer and heart disease
so that the insurance companies wouldn't have to pay out so much to the
doctors and the hospitals. Does he care about human life? Surely, this is
the last thing he is thinking of. He thinks that in Hungary the only
beneficiary is the medical insurance lobby. Surely, the anti-smoking law is
to their benefit. The people who are dying, surely, Mr. Seres isn't thinking
of them!

        In case, Mr. Seres didn't say enough stupid things, he then goes on
about Clinton's acceptance of the fact that nicotine is addictive. He
doesn't doubt that it is addictive, but he demands that the president of the
United States should announce the legality of marijuahana and hashish
instead of announcing that nicotine is habit forming.

        At the very end he pretty well comes out saying that the
state/society shouldn't make any laws which would restrict individual
freedom. If an individual wants to kill himself either by hard drugs or by
cigarettes and alcohol, let them die. "Individual suicide," says Mr. Seres,
"is a private matter." And says Mr. Seres, "there is no such public health
issue which would warrant the state's interference in free competition.
Everybody himself/herself is responsible for his/her health."

        But if that's the case, please I don't want to hear about the
incredible statistics on life expectancy. I don't want to hear about the end
of the Hungarians as a distinct ethnic group because of low birthrate and
high deathrate. I don't want to hear about the poor men and women who die in
their fifties. I don't want to hear about those poor sixteen-year-old boys
who will most likely die before age of 65.

        But after calming down--which is difficult facing so much human
stupidity in one article by a so-called intellectual--the fact is that in
typical Hungarian fashion a proposed law is introduced without any
preparation whatsoever. The Hungarian people were never told in a serious
way that "smoking kills." There has been no attempt to change public
perception and public behavior. The doctors themselves who are supposed to
do the educating are smokers themselves. It is like the law--which I applaud
by itself--concerning legal equality of gay couples with heterosexual ones.
Overwhelming majority of the population is rabidly anti-gay but a small,
educated, and enlightened group, maybe one percent of the population, knows
enough about the whole matter to pass judgment. Surely, the members of the
constitutional court belong to that small intellectual elite. They passed a
remarkable law but that law was passed in a total void. This law was passed
over and above the heads of the ordinary citizens. Just as the anti-smoking
law, if it ever gets out of parliament (which I doubt), will be enacted into
law in a country which is totally unprepared for its passing.

        Eva Balogh

SUZI wrote:
>
> I would love to have the family name "JOSVAI" investigated, michael
> josvai to be precise or barbara balas born in 1800's will get some
> dates later...what ships did people use to come to usa?  what was
> main reason for fleeing hungary prior to WWII..i presume communism
> student in search


As it may sound..


Was a plot, they send over to Hungary agents
to lied that there is gold here. Was more gold in
Hungary but the peasants took the bait, over a
million of them.

You do not believe? Fifty years later an other
million took the bait that there is gold in California.


You get it know ... mas media what else....Good American Know How.

In article >,  writes:

>But they are all communist, ALL, are they?
>
>The new Hungary will have/be:
>
>       - no nationality
>             - no religion
>       - no borders
>       - no old, they will be all dead
>       - will be capitalist CAPITALIST *****C A P I T A L I S T ***
>
>       - member in NATO, EU, .:, :.,........
>                                                       - with a
population of 3M, before the new immigration bill.
>
>
>
>Albert Albu
>
>

And you guys thought I was making a cruel jape when I questioned whether
this poor man suffered from a chemical imbalance. If he deteriorates much
more, his posts may begin to read like "Finnegan's Wake" by James Joyce.
Sam Stowe

"Baby, will you eat snack crackers wearin'
that, uh, special outfit you bought?"
-- Southern Culture on the Skids, "Camel Walk"

At 11:37 27/09/96 -0400, Sam commented acerbicly:
>In article >, Peter k Chong
> writes:
>
>>Subject:       Re: Bela Bartok the "chauvinist
>>From:  Peter k Chong >
>>Date:  26 Sep 1996 03:56:20 GMT
>>
 wrote:
>>>Judit Frigyes and Peter Laki wrote:
>>>
>>> > Bela Bartok was a Nationalist -> chauvinist -> antisemite
>>>
>>>
>>>I want opinions from:
>>>
>>>      Eva, Sam Stowe, Peter I. Hidas, Joe Szalai, Aniko, Jeliko,eorge
>>>Szaszvari of Milky Way and all others.
>>>
>>>
>>>Albert Albu
>>
>>Chauvanist, eh?.... Hmm... How about the Romanian Folk Dances (Roman nipi
>
>>tancok), Dance Suite (Tancszvit), Romanian Dance (Roman tanc), and the
>>countless pieces with Romanian, Ukranian, Slovakian, Bulgarian, Turkish
>>and Arabic-inspired themes?
>>
>>Judging by the names of the Bartsk haters, they must be Magyar in name
>>only...
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Peter Chong
>>
>>
>
>Isn't this sweet? You two really must get together for tea sometime. Mr.
>Chong, meet our resident schizophrenic -- Mr. Albu. Al, meet Mr. Chong, a
>man who judges people he's never met solely on the basis of their last
>names. Judging from his own, you might want to tell Mr. Chong how much you
>enjoy mah johng and egg rolls. At least I think that's how his brand of
>condescension works.
>Sam Stowe
>
Hi, Sam,

Still shooting from the hip, I see. . . Isnt this a case of the pot calling
the kettle black? Peter, as I am aware from seeing his posts on SCM, is not
Magyar but is a Magyarphile. He is *not,* despite what you have said,
drawing a conclusion about Ms. Frigyes and Mr. Laki from their names, he is
saying that they must not be true Hungarians, despite their names, or they
would not slander Mr. Bartok with what, judging from the various comments
which have been made so far, are obviously false allegations.

Does not seem to me to be condescension but rather (justified) criticism.

BTW, for my own two cents on this, I would be interested to know if there
will be any attempt to approach the authors and publishers to correct and
offer a retraction and an apology for these statements. I can't help
wondering if there are any Bartok heirs out there who might have an interest
in seeing these statements rectified.

Yours respectfully,

Johanne/Janka



Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 

At 08:44 PM 9/27/96 -0500, Albert Albu wrote:

<sznip>
>But they are all communist, ALL, are they?
>
>The new Hungary will have/be:
>
>       - no nationality
>              - no religion
>       - no borders
>       - no old, they will be all dead
>       - will be capitalist CAPITALIST *****C A P I T A L I S T ***
>       - member in NATO, EU, .:, :.,........
>                                                        - with a population
of 3
> M, before the new immigration bill.

You sound very uncomfortable, Albert.  I think you should change your
butt-plug once in a while.  And please continue with your therapy.

Joe Szalai

Please define the origins of the following surname:


SZEGEDI

This is difficult to research, can anyone help?

On Fri, 27 Sep 1996  wrote:

> George Szaszvari wrote:
> >
>
> But they are all communist, ALL, are they?
>
> The new Hungary will have/be:
>
>        - no nationality
>               - no religion
>        - no borders
>        - no old, they will be all dead
>        - will be capitalist CAPITALIST *****C A P I T A L I S T ***
>        - member in NATO, EU, .:, :.,........
>                                                         - with a population o
f
 3
>  M, before the new immigration bill.
>
>
>
> Albert Albu
>------------------------
   It is way too late to adjust his medication, Sam.

                                                     Amos

A very interesting article appeared in today's New York Times (p. 3)
in connection with the current historical conference concentrating on the
events of 1956 in Budapest.

        Anyone interested, please let me know.

        Eva Balogh

At 12:20 AM 9/28/96 GMT, George Szaszvari wrote:

<snip>
>Interesting. I remember reading in his attributed biography (of about
>25 years, or so, ago) that he admitted: *we made mistakes in Hungary*,
>but I cannot believe the Soviet hawks could have allowed anything but
>suppression of the revolution, whatever misgivings Kruschev might have
>had. Installing the Kadar regime was presumably better than other (worse)
>possibilities that would have happened had Stalin still been around.

That recent document I referred to yesterday was mentioned on the CBC radio
news.  The news report said that the document was released by Boris Yeltsin
a couple of years ago.  I thought it was interesting because it was news to
me.  Perhaps Khrushchev saw Imre Nagy as another Tito.  And maybe he was, but
we'll never know.  However, it's interesting to note that, with time, Kadar
turned out to be like Tito.

Joe Szalai

On Friday, October 4, at 10pm, TVO presents "Child Murders" (1993, drama)
staring Barnabas Toth and Ilona Kallai.

"A poor Hungarian boy's friendship with a pregnant Gypsy leads to ostracism,
suicide and revenge."

All of you who live in Ontario, and in neighbouring States, mark your
calenders to watch this movie.

Joe Szalai


http://library.uwaterloo.ca:80/~jgszalai/JOESMAIN.HTM

At 01:56 AM 9/26/96 GMT, George Szaszvari wrote:

<snip>
>Hmmm...for some people in some matters, perhaps. This gets back to the
>old question of whether environmental or hereditary factors determine
>an individual's psychology (concerning interpersonal social relationships).
>People are pretty impressionable, especially when young (e.g., are most
>criminals born as such?). The thing is that repressive societies hardly
>encourage people to *grow*, even if there are glowing examples of
>supposedly natural rebels (artists, writers, prophets, etc) who use
>the very fact of difficult conditions to express themselves and soar
>above the mediocre.

I don't think we have to bring in environmental or hereditary factors to
this discussion.  Eva Balogh's comments are quite clear.  She doesn't
recognize your existance and she doesn't want to discuss my "socialist
dreams" any more.  She says it's not worth discussing these matters with me.
Jeliko said that he deletes posts from me, Eva Durant, and Tibor Benke.
Maybe Eva Balogh does the same now.

Unfortunately, all this posturing has had a rather negative effect on this
newsgroup.  Debate has almost dried up.  Eva's "back slappers" and "thank
you-ers" don't challenge her and rarely contribute to discussions.  They
think that the empresses clothes are gorgeous.  And maybe they are, but I'm
not one to follow fashion.

I think the "problem" is the nature of the internet and the newsgroups.
Nobody can control the agenda.  This is problematic for people like Balogh
and Jeliko.  Given their age, and their status in society, they have been
able to control agendas in the past.  But not here in cyberspace.  And
because of that they revert to denial.  Therefore, I don't exist, you don't
exist, unpopular topics don't exist, etc., etc..

Politically, I can only smile at their frustration.  They're both good
historians, but the future, as far as interpersonal communications is
concerned, is going to throw them for a loop.  And they'll have no one to
blame for their predicament but themselves.

Joe Szalai

Yes Please!

At 10:07 AM 28/09/96 -0400, you wrote:
>        A very interesting article appeared in today's New York Times (p. 3)
>in connection with the current historical conference concentrating on the
>events of 1956 in Budapest.
>
>        Anyone interested, please let me know.
>
>        Eva Balogh
>
>

Aniko! Itt a cikk. Kulonben hetfon indulok a nagy basset hound
kutyakiallitasra (National Specialty) Allentown, Pennsylvaniaba. Mindossze
szombaton jovok haza.

        Udv, Eva


September 28, 1996
Did West Spur Revolt, Promise Assistance in 1956?
By JANE PERLEZ

BUDAPEST, Hungary  --  Newly released documents concerning Radio
Free Europe broadcasts during the 1956 Hungarian uprising against
the Soviets confirm what many Hungarians remembered and others
suspected: that commentators encouraged the Hungarians to battle on
in the false understanding that they would receive reinforcements
from the West.
   The documents were among those made public this week at a
conference on historians' access to archives from the cold war era.
   The main item shedding new light on the broadcasts is an
internal Radio Free Europe memorandum written by William Griffith,
then a political adviser at the Munich-based station, a few weeks
after the rebellion was crushed.
   Griffith noted that a broadcast on Oct. 27, four days after the
revolt began, "fairly clearly implies that foreign aid will be
forthcoming if the resistance forces succeed in establishing a
'central military command."'
   A program on the following day, Griffith said, stated that
"Hungarians must continue to fight vigorously because this will
have a great effect on the handling of the Hungarian question by
the Security Council." Without saying so directly, the author of
the broadcast, a Hungarian emigre, implied that the United Nations
would give active support to Hungarians if they kept on fighting,
Griffith said.
   At the time of the revolt, Radio Free Europe was covertly
financed in part by the Central Intelligence Agency. Its support
ended in the early 1970s when the station came under the
supervision of an independent Federal agency funded by Congress.
   Many Hungarians still remember listening to the broadcasts,
which many said gave tremendous hope  --  false hope, it turned out  --
that help was on the way.
   On Nov. 4, for example, the day the Soviets suppressed the
rebellion, a Radio Free Europe broadcaster, Zoltan Thury, told his
listeners, "In the Western capitals a practical manifestation of
Western sympathy is expected at any hour." Griffith noted in his
memo that Thury's broadcast constituted the "most serious policy
violation of all."
   The question of whether the broadcasts unduly incited the
Hungarian fighters caused such a storm in Washington that
congressional hearings were held in 1957. Radio Free Europe was
then exonerated.
   The Griffith memorandum was among documents recently unearthed
in Washington, Budapest and Moscow concerning the rebellion whose
40th anniversary will be commemorated next month. The new material,
which includes minutes of Hungarian Cabinet meetings with Prime
Minister Imre Nagy, the Communist reform leader, as well as notes
from Politburo meetings in the Soviet Union during the crisis, was
unveiled here Friday at a conference of American, Hungarian and
Russian historians.
   The notes from the Politburo show that at one moment during the
rebellion the Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev considered
recognizing the government of Imre Nagy, the reform Communist, but
the notes also show that there was great indecision and opposing
points of view in the meetings as well as distrust among the
members.
   Other documents also showed that the presence in Moscow of the
Chinese Communist Party's vice chairmen, Liu Shaoqi, was vital in
tipping the scales towards suppressing the revolt.
   The conference organized by the National Security Archive at
George Washington University, a group that focuses on encouraging
governments around the world to open their archives, addressed the
varying degrees of access that scholars now have to the gold mine
of cold war information that lies in the archives of the former
Communist bloc.
   Charles Gati, a political scientist who fled Hungary during the
1956 revolt and is now a fellow at Johns Hopkins University's Nitze
School of Advanced International Studies, said he had encouraged
the current Hungarian Government to be more forthcoming in
releasing documents.
   In that way, he said, the Hungarians could show the West that
they were truly a democratic country and not just a
"post-Communist country."
   "I told them you need to break with the past more definitively
and open up the archives in the Ministry of Interior," Gati said.
"I said, 'Why don't you let the country confront its collective
past."'
   Gati said the Hungarian government had made some progress, but
not enough. "You can open up a controversial event and think
you've done your job. But the daily activities of a police state
don't emerge from a sensational event  --  a lot of Hungarians want to
understand the sociology of a police state," he said.
   Although he had been given considerable access to the archives
for a book he is writing on the trial and execution in 1958 of
Nagy, Gati said some material was still off-limits.
   The Hungarian Prime Minister, Gyula Horn, a former Communist who
as a young man during the 1956 revolt guarded a bridge in Budapest
against the rebels, has said that many files must remain closed to
protect intelligence officers who are still alive.
   Mark Kramer, a political scientist at the Russian Research
Center at Harvard University who has worked in libraries in Moscow
as well as in the former Warsaw Pact countries, said the East
German archives were by far the most accessible.
   Poland, Kramer said, maintains severe restrictions on getting
records on the imposition of martial law in 1981. In particular, he
said, files of the ministries of national defense and internal
affairs, which were jointly responsible for the planning of martial
law, are still closed.
   When he asked for access to these files, Kramer said he was told
by Janusz Onyszkiewicz, a Solidarity leader who became minister for
defense after the Communists collapsed and is now one of the
biggest proponents for Poland joining NATO, said the files had to
be kept secret.
   "He said those files have contingency plans and mobilization
plans that could have relevance in the future," Kramer said.

Those of you who has access to WWW may be interested that the electronic
addition of the NY Times is available, as of now, free of charge at
http://www.nytimes.com.  The TimesFax copy is even delivered to your modem,
az of now, again free as the NYT-s betatester at http://www.nytimesfax.com.
 ' Just thought to let you know.

Sandor a loko"to"

Joe At 12:46 PM 28/09/96 -0400, you wrote:
>At 01:56 AM 9/26/96 GMT, George Szaszvari wrote:
>
><snip>
>I don't think we have to bring in environmental or hereditary factors to
>this discussion. <...>
>
>Unfortunately, all this posturing has had a rather negative effect on this
>newsgroup.  Debate has almost dried up.  Eva's "back slappers" and "thank
>you-ers" don't challenge her and rarely contribute to discussions.

This is great Joe, just great!  Let's bring in a little categorization of
list members instead and ooohhhh let's not forget a *little* demeaning while
at it?  Since I was the last one to do the unthinkable and dared to thank
people for efforts extended, I take the above very personally and to heart
at that:(.  I was not aware that a thoughtful gesture would result in being
categorized as a "back slapper".  As for challenging Eva, and, contributing
to discussions relating to History, 56, and today's political scene; has it
ever occurred to you that certain members just simply do not have a
knowledge level with which to do it with effectively or even comfortably?

For instance, my entire scope of History has derived from being educated in
Hungary, during the late fifties and sixties.  Since then, I have taken it
upon myself to expand on what I consider to be "no knowledge at all" or if
given a tad of credit "very biasedly imparted knowledge if that".  Surely,
you can imagine the scope of garbage dumped on students in that subject, let
alone some others during that "era". (Take sciences out of this discussion
- which were far more advanced, and I think that some still are - but that's
another topic).

If you cannot, I'll be pleased to cite one example.  When I left Hungary
(67), the principle of my school was shocked to think that I would as much
as *entertain* the thought of moving to North America, where Presidents,
politicians, can be shot "just like that"  - and no, she was *not* a stupid
person by any standards.   Regarding 56, my father was extremely involved -
whom I only met once in my life.  I want to learn as much about this topic,
as I possibly can - since no one within my family has even as much as a clue
- and if they do, they are holding it tight to their chest.  The 56
revolution served to shape my entire life and it's results are solely
responsible for my being here in the first place. Today, the next generation
being my children; are asking questions, for which no one seems to have
answers to.  With regards to topics involving today's economic climate,
politics et al in Hungary, well, let's just say that I have a vested
interest - but not always the time to keep on top of things on a day to day
basis, as I ought to.  Having said this, I hope that you can appreciate as
to why I appreciate the writings on these topics. And also, I hope you can
appreciate as to why (while I am in my right mind that is); I would not
challenge a discussion related to these topics.  Having a clear grasp of my
limitations however, ought not be an open door for any personal attack, or
attempt at demeaning or categorizing my being.

And.... before you even allow yourself to think that this is a
justification; don't!  Unfortunately, it just is, the way it is written.

Regards,
Aniko.

>At 01:56 AM 9/26/96 GMT, George Szaszvari wrote:
>
><snip>
>>Hmmm...for some people in some matters, perhaps. This gets back to the
>>old question of whether environmental or hereditary factors determine
>>an individual's psychology (concerning interpersonal social relationships).
>>People are pretty impressionable, especially when young (e.g., are most
>>criminals born as such?). The thing is that repressive societies hardly
>>encourage people to *grow*, even if there are glowing examples of
>>supposedly natural rebels (artists, writers, prophets, etc) who use
>>the very fact of difficult conditions to express themselves and soar
>>above the mediocre.
>
>I don't think we have to bring in environmental or hereditary factors to
>this discussion.  Eva Balogh's comments are quite clear.  She doesn't
>recognize your existance and she doesn't want to discuss my "socialist
>dreams" any more.  She says it's not worth discussing these matters with me.
>Jeliko said that he deletes posts from me, Eva Durant, and Tibor Benke.
>Maybe Eva Balogh does the same now.
>
>Unfortunately, all this posturing has had a rather negative effect on this
>newsgroup.  Debate has almost dried up.  Eva's "back slappers" and "thank
>you-ers" don't challenge her and rarely contribute to discussions.  They
>think that the empresses clothes are gorgeous.  And maybe they are, but I'm
>not one to follow fashion.
>
>I think the "problem" is the nature of the internet and the newsgroups.
>Nobody can control the agenda.  This is problematic for people like Balogh
>and Jeliko.  Given their age, and their status in society, they have been
>able to control agendas in the past.  But not here in cyberspace.  And
>because of that they revert to denial.  Therefore, I don't exist, you don't
>exist, unpopular topics don't exist, etc., etc..
>
>Politically, I can only smile at their frustration.  They're both good
>historians, but the future, as far as interpersonal communications is
>concerned, is going to throw them for a loop.  And they'll have no one to
>blame for their predicament but themselves.
>
>Joe Szalai
>
 Joe:didn't you know that the intelligencia took over,and keeps a stronghold
here.Anyone who can not spell properly or there grammer is incorrect will
not get involved in discussions,neing affraid he/she will be critisised,and
called names.
Who cares as long as there is something worthwhile to discuss.We as free
people with different social thougth ,and as canadians will not take a back
seat to the yankes,even if we like them,since we know there are different
people there also who might not agree with all or some of the politics of
that big USA.
O my will I get bashed over my head to write anything different about the Us.
Hey wait a minute,my Son just became a US citisen,and will be able to vote
for the first time.Give me a break.
Regards:Andy.>

This one is simple...it means from SZEGED.
Just like if one came from Budapest they could in theory be named
BUDAPESTi.
Peter Soltesz


On Sat, 28 Sep 1996, Auphanim wrote:

> Please define the origins of the following surname:
>
>
> SZEGEDI
>
> This is difficult to research, can anyone help?
>

Just to remind everyone that one of our great mathematician's has
passsed away...
there are articles in most major newspapapers:
NY Times, Washington Post, etc.
Another Great Hunrian.

With Respect,
Peter Soltesz

At 02:47 PM 9/28/96 -0400, Eva Balogh wrote:

>        Aniko! Itt a cikk. Kulonben hetfon indulok a nagy basset hound
>kutyakiallitasra (National Specialty) Allentown, Pennsylvaniaba. Mindossze
>szombaton jovok haza.

Good luck!, Eva.

Joe Szalai

"Histories are more full of examples of the fidelity of dogs than of friends."
          Alexander Pope

At 10:47 PM 9/25/96 -0500, Vitaly wrote:
>Valaki elarulna nekem hogy mi a fene baja van a Szlovakoknak a Magyarokkal es
>vice versa?
>
>Could any one please explain to me what in the dickens is the problem of the
>Slovak government and people with Hungarians?! (and vice versa if aplicable...
)
>vitaly franko

        They are too similar in culture and temperament. In addition, the
Slovaks are not too happy about a fairly large Hungarian minority. They are
worried, despite Hungarian assurances, about their territorial integrity and
fearful of not being able to govern the country as a nation state.

        Eva Balogh

Thank you for your post, Aniko.  To show my appreciation for your candor,
I'm going to take your name off that list right away.

Joe Szalai

"Leave the personal insults, vindictiveness and ugliness to Szalai and me.
We're trained professionals."
                      Sam Stowe

 (Auphanim) wrote:
>Please define the origins of the following surname:
>
>
>SZEGEDI
>
>This is difficult to research, can anyone help?

Hmm... the name "Szegedi", literally means "Szeged-of" or
"Szeged-pertaining to". Obviously anyone of this surname probably had at
least one ancestor who hailed from the city of Szeged in southeastern
Hungary.

Hope it helps

Peter Chong

Peter I. Hidas wrote:
>
> At 11:26 AM 9/27/96, Stowewrite wrote:
> >In article >,  writes:
> >
> >>Yes, they were murdered and they were murdered when Hungary was in the
> >>hands of those germanofils who rejected the values of the Western
> >>Civilization, ... back in the XIX'c. This will hapen any time
> >>
> >>
> >
> >They were murdered with the active assistance of the Hungarian government.
> >Remember, the Germans didn't seize control of the country until the
> >process of rounding Jews up and shipping them off to Auschwitz was already
> >well underway.
>
> Hungary was occupied in March, 1944. The deportation of the Jews followed.
> Horthy and his government (Kallay) resisted and categorically rejected over
> and over the German demands for ghettoizing, branding and deportation of
> the Jews until that date. The deportation was organized in 1944 by A.
> Eichmann and his 200 agents with the support of the Hungarian civil service
> and gendarmerie.
>
> Peter I. Hidas
> Montreal

----------------------
It is clear what you are sating. Based on what
Sam Stowe  states, the rounding up of Jews happened before that date of
March, 1944. I am interested on who is right.

Albert Albu

I would like to dedicate my essay to those who gave their lives for freedom.

Peter I. Hidas

DAY SIX

Sunday, 28 October 1956.
Fighting eased as Revolutionary Councils gained control of provincial
towns.  Nagy denied [the] Russian claim that [the] uprising was [a]
counter-revolution and named it "an all-embracing unifying, national and
democratic movement". He asked for immediate withdrawal of Soviet forces
from Budapest and promised to disband the secret police. Soviet
intervention [was] condemned in the U.N.
Calendar of Events in Hungary prepared by the staff of the Department of
External Affairs for use in connection with the Special Session of the
Canadian House of Commons: November 26, 1956.(1)

        On October 28, five days after the start of the Hungarian
revolution, the Security Council began debating an American-British-French
protest proposal against the Soviet armed intervention in Hungary. The
proposal had the tacit support of several Western countries, including
Canada.(2) Canada had private reservations about the usefulness of an
anti-Soviet propaganda campaign on behalf of Hungary but the delegation in
New York would not openly challenge the American approach at this time.
During the course of the Security Council debate, a diplomat from South
East Asia suggested off the record to the Canadian delegation that the main
purpose of the exercise was to convey to the people of Hungary that their
struggle for freedom had the attention of the western powers who were
following developments with the most sympathy. Canadian diplomats at the
U.N. were told that the Council debate could strengthen the hand of the
Hungarian government in its negotiations with the Soviet Union. Some
accused the US of exploiting the situation for domestic purposes while
others claimed that the Council's action was necessary to head off a
possible request for support from a rebel government in Western Hungary.

         Through its junior diplomats he USA solicited support for a UN
resolution. Canada was approached. The Afro-Asian bloc showed no
enthusiasm. P.J. Nehru,  prime minister of India, believed  that there was
a civil war in Hungary and there should be no interference in Hungarian
domestic affairs. Nevertheless, an agenda to discuss Hungary was adopted by
a vote of 9-1-1. The Council was  to be reconvened at the discretion of the
President. Private talks on the matter were scheduled for Monday.(3)

        The prime minister's office in Ottawa was still receiving telegrams
on behalf of Hungary but none were sent by the mainstream Canadian
organizations. Messages came from the Estonian Society of Montreal, the
Loyal Finns of Canada, the Lithuanian Canadian Federation, the Canadian
Council for Free Europe and by local Hungarian groups.(4) Canadians
sympathized but feared confrontation, feared war. Canadian veterans
remembered that Hungary was a German ally during the Second World War and
many Hungarian-Canadian were veterans of the anti-Allied armed forces.

        Canadian-Hungarians took to the streets to demonstrate their
support for the new Hungarian revolution and to demand Canadian and,
especially, UN action to protect the new freedoms achieved in Eastern
Europe. A rally was held in Ottawa with the participation of 600
Hungarians. These were joined by groups representing most of the satellite
countries, who declared their solidarity with the Hungarians. The Ottawa
police refused to authorize a march on the Soviet embassy so the
participants drove by the Soviet Embassy. Then the procession moved to the
national war memorial. The demonstrators laid a wreath, listened to
speeches and sang "God Save the Queen." A young man began singing the
Hungarian national anthem, "God Save the Hungarians."

        Similar Ontario demonstrations were also held in Hamilton,  Welland
and  Windsor. The Montreal police prevented a Hungarian protest march,
much to the dismay of the French press, which showed considerable sympathy
for the Hungarians. (5)

        While talks continued in New York and demonstrations in Canada,
ominous signs appeared on the Middle Eastern horizon. Israeli tanks
approached Egyptian territories. "Israeli Army Launches Drive Into Egypt",
read the headline of the next day's Montreal Star.
-----
Notes

(1)NAC, RG 2, 90-91/154, Box 47, File H-17-1 (b).

(2)Canada and the United Nations 1956-57  (Department of External Affairs).
Ottawa, Canada. Conference Series 1957.
Ottawa: Edmond Cloutier, 1957):  29.

(3)Telegram from the Canadian Permanent Mission to External Affairs, 29
October 1956, NAC, RG, 84-85/150, Box 111, File 8619-40, part 2; from
January 2, 1952 to October 31, 1956; The Montreal Star, 29 October 1956;
Reid, op.cit., 37.

(4)NAC, RG 2, 90-91/154 vol.108, File H-17-1.

(5)The Montreal Star, 29 October 1956; LeDevoir, 29 October 1956.

Peter I. Hidas
Montreal

Joe Szalai,

>        She doesn't
>recognize your existance and she doesn't want to discuss my "socialist
>dreams" any more.  She says it's not worth discussing these matters with me.

        That's correct. For well over a year you have been trying to
convince me that the day will come when socialism will triumph. I don't
believe that you are right. You cannot convince me and I can't convince you.
So, what's the use of discussing this worn-out topic. It is boring and it
leads nowhere. So, don't think that I'm running away from your superb
intellect. No, I just recognize that discussion on this topic is useless. We
can't add anything to our arguments and we simply keep repeating our
believes without the slightest chance of convincing each other. Who wants to
listen to that? There are many, many interesting topics out there and I am
trying to bring them to the attention of the readership.

        Eva Balogh

Well said, Gabor.  I agreed with a lot of what you wrote.

I think some of the contributors of this newsgroups go way too far when
they compare Europe and the US with respect to culture.  The only point
I wish to make here is that I find it hardly reasonable to compare two
regions that are so different like Hungary and the States.  We
Hungarians are the proud inheritors of over a millenium's worth of
cultural developments of a predominantly homogenious society.  The US,
on the other hand, is a young nation made up of many, many vastly
different cultures.

In the States, one can find some of the smartest, and culture-oriented
people.  One can also find some of the darkest minds as well.  My
personal experience is the same on both continents.  I met some real
impressive individuals and some of the dumbest people I ever met.

If one wishes to look at only the good aspects of one culture and the
bad aspects of another, it is easy to establish a
superiority-inferiority relationship.

Gabor, you are quite right about education; however, I hope when you
mentioned the highest level of education, you meant Master's and
higher.  When it comes to the basic four-year B.S. or B.A., the US is
still behind.  Now I am basing my statement on an average institution
and not schools like Stanford, Berkeley, etc.  I finished a B.S. in
Aviation Administration at SJSU in California last year.  Throughout my
studies I was appalled that the level of math, physics, and literature
courses was hardly at par with a Hungarian high school education.  When
it came to literature, my 7th and 8th grade (Hungarian) literature
classes were more serious than all the English classes I had to take to
satisfy the B.S. requirement.

I think what's great at the university level in the States is the
freedom to tailor your degree to your own interest.

well, that's enough for now.  But I have to say even though I disagree
with a lot of what has been mentioned in this cultural superiority
clash, I strongly support people to express their ideas.  Perhaps that's
what I miss here in the US.  Here much fewer average people dare to talk
about anything substantial.

udvozlettel,
Lajos

At 2:11 PM 9/28/96,  wrote:
>Peter I. Hidas wrote:
>>
>> At 11:26 AM 9/27/96, Stowewrite wrote:
>> >In article >,  writes:
>> >
>> >>Yes, they were murdered and they were murdered when Hungary was in the
>> >>hands of those germanofils who rejected the values of the Western
>> >>Civilization, ... back in the XIX'c. This will hapen any time
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >They were murdered with the active assistance of the Hungarian government.
>> >Remember, the Germans didn't seize control of the country until the
>> >process of rounding Jews up and shipping them off to Auschwitz was already
>> >well underway.
>>
>> Hungary was occupied in March, 1944. The deportation of the Jews followed.
>> Horthy and his government (Kallay) resisted and categorically rejected over
>> and over the German demands for ghettoizing, branding and deportation of
>> the Jews until that date. The deportation was organized in 1944 by A.
>> Eichmann and his 200 agents with the support of the Hungarian civil service
>> and gendarmerie.
>>
>> Peter I. Hidas
>> Montreal
>
>----------------------
>It is clear what you are sating. Based on what
>Sam Stowe  states, the rounding up of Jews happened before that date of
>March, 1944. I am interested on who is right.
>
>Albert Albu

The rounding up and deportation of the Jews began on May 15, 1944. Germany
occupied Hungary on March 19, 1944 and installed the Sztojay government.
Horthy remained governor.

Peter I. Hidas
Montreal

Lajos  At 04:10 PM 27/09/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Well said, Gabor.  I agreed with a lot of what you wrote.<...>

It does so seem that I did not receive the posting of Gabor to which you
reply to herein; - you would mind sharing, - just so that I can put the
thoughts into perspective?

Thanks and regards,
Aniko