In article >, T. Kocsis > wrote
:

: In article > Weird L.
: Marcowitz,  writes:
: >And it seems rather strange that Ajax fans, walking around with Jewish
: >symbols (Israelian flag, stars on their jackets), would make this
: >Nazi-gesture.
: 
: Uh, I did not know that Ajax is a Jewish club. Now, I begin to understand
: the background of why this kind of denunciation was chosen.

Well, Ajax is not really a Jewish club. Amsterdam contains (contained) a
large population of Jews, so Ajax became known as a Jewish club here. Ajax
fans over here use the Jewish symbols as a way of separating themselves
from other clubs, not necessarily because they ARE Jewish.
But anti-racistic felings are very strong amongst the Ajax-fans, and I'm
sure that any fan who made the Nazi-gesture would have been lynched.

: >If you aren't making things up, it would be most likely that
: >you saw fans of the OTHEr team. What made you so sure that it were Ajax
: >fans? Them having red and white shawls?? 
: 
: They had painted faces. The commentator said nothin', but they were shown
: in celebration after Ajax goal. I think it happened in early January .

Ah, the painted faces says enough.....What colors were they painted in?
Red-White? Blue-Black?

If it happened early january, then it must have been the match against
Anderlecht or a game in Israel. The latter seems highly unlikely (sort of
pronouncing your own death penalty), the first is unlikely too. I don't
think too many fans would make a trip to Belgium for a friendly game.
And in the Dutch competition Ajax have had some problems scoring, so this
is unlikely too. Are you sure AJAX scored???

: Tamas

Marco

..culture.mongolian,soc.culture.nepal,soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.new-z
ealand,soc.culture.nigeria,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.pacific-island,soc.cu
lture.pakistan,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.peru,soc.culture.polish,soc.cu
lture.portuguese

>James Perkins ) wrote:
>I think you shouldn't be so hard on Mr. Smith, if you go back in time, far
>enough, you'll probably discover that we all have common ancestors, and that
>, in the end, Mr. Smith's ancestors back to the stone age or even farther
>might be yours, also... Perhaps you're even distant cousins...

>About today's netters being world's future leaders... It is frightning,
>isn't it? To think of such INTOLERANT people to have power in their hands...
>(take your conclusions)

Well, in that case, we are all "distant" relatives if we go as far back 
as Adam & Eve, if you're of the religious sort.  For those Darwinians out 
there, if we go back to the original single cell! (:

-- 
  /\___/\  Peace.		 | Yes, an A500, A1000, A1200 and an 
 (  o o  )http://wwwpub.utdallas.| OS/2 machine DO live peacefully side
===  v  === 	  edu/~jochoa/	 | by side. :) Member: Team OS/2
   )---(  	 | "A Microsoft/Windows free home."

Elszaporodtak az "olcso poenok", mert az igazi temakban siri csond lett.

Bejott a "gondolatkiserlet" Fencsiknel: Ugy latszik az "SZDSZ moratorium"
a Peto-taxisblokad temaban GLOBALIS. Tiborc/Botond is alaposan "beolvasott",
de hat ugy latszik mar iszkolnak a patkanyok a sullyedo hajorol. Mar
vigyaznak megszolalni, nehogy rajuk emlekezzenek majd a fordulat utan.

Yes I live in the USA and I would like to have pen-pals from central 
America, I would like some from El Salvador or any country in Central or 
South America.

Archive-name: hungarian/faq
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: faq
Last-modified: 1996/02/09
Version: 1.30
Posting-Frequency: every fifteen days

     Hungarian electronic resources FAQ

               TABLE OF CONTENTS

1.      News and discussion groups in English
1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute
1.2  News from Central Europe Today
1.3  The Hungary Report
1.4  Hungary Online List (HOL)
1.5  MOZAIK
1.6  On USENET
1.7  'Hungary', the LISTSERV list 
1.8  , the Hungarian-American list

2.      News and discussion groups in Hungarian
2.1  HIX (many groups and services)
2.2  BLA Sajtoszemle [press review]
2.3  "Nemzet" Magyar Internet Vilaglap [Hungarian Internet World Bulletin]
2.4  Other discussion groups

3.      Interactive services
3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web
3.2  Gopher and other interactive services
3.3  ARENA

4.      The Net in Hungary
4.1  BITNET/HUEARN
4.2  HUNGARNET
4.3  FidoNet
4.4  Finding out somebody's email address

5.      Odds and ends
5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary
5.2  Conventions for coding Hungarian accents
5.3  Information sources about the rest of Central and Eastern Europe

6.      Contributors to this FAQ

7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 I know this is very long, perhaps too long for human consumption ;-).
One of the tasks for further editing is to make it more concise,
perhaps drop some parts altogether (I'd like to hear any suggestions).
You can search for the section titles listed above and skip what you
don't want, and many Unix newsreaders would jump ahead to the next one
with Ctrl-G (the format now follows the digest specification)!

------------------------------

Subject: 1.  NEWS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS IN ENGLISH

 Note: commercial networks -- such as CompuServe or AOL -- may have
their own in-house forums relating to Eastern and Central Europe. Be
aware that those are only open to the subscribers of the particular
service, unlike the discussion groups accessible by anyone via the
Internet and Usenet! This file -- the hungarian-faq -- is mostly
concerned with resources freely available netwide.
 See also the sections under 2. below which list services that carry
occasional English material, some regularly, besides their primarily
Hungarian language content.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute

 The Open Media Research Institute Daily Digest is available via
electronic mail, at no charge. The Digest covers all of the former
Soviet Union, East-Central and Southeastern Europe and is delivered in
two parts, each roughly 15 kByte in size, Monday through Friday (except
Czech holidays).

 You can subscribe by sending <mailto:>.
In the body of the message, type
 "SUBSCRIBE OMRI-L Yourfirstname Yourlastname" (leave out the quotation
marks and be sure to substitute your own name where shown).

 You can get reposts of just the items related to Hungary by
subscribing to Mozaik. See section 1.5.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.2  News from Central Europe Today

 Central Europe Today On-Line is a free daily news service covering the
important events and business news in the region. To subscribe, send
the word SUBSCRIBE <mailto:>. For more
detailed information, send a blank email message
<mailto:>.

Again, these exceed Hungary in scope, but you can get excerpts
pertaining to Hungary in Mozaik (see 1.4).

------------------------------

Subject: 1.3  The Hungary Report

 The Hungary Report is a free weekly English-language online update of
news and analysis direct from Budapest each Sunday. The Report consists
of briefs, one feature story and an expert political opinion column.
The briefs cover the most important and interesting developments in
Hungary each week, while the feature stories address variously
politics, business, economics, arts and leisure. The weekly political
column, Parliament Watch, is written by Tibor Vidos, director of the
Budapest office of GJW, a British political lobbying and consulting
firm. To subscribe, send
<mailto:> containing (in the body
of the message, not in the headers) the single word "subscribe" (no
quotes).  Or send the word "info" to the same address for further
information.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.4  Hungary Online List (HOL)

 This discussion list is a "kind of Internet supplement" to the column
of the same title in Budapest Business Journal; to subscribe, send the
word "subscribe" <mailto:> (you'll get help
from its Majordomo server, if needed).

------------------------------

Subject: 1.5  MOZAIK

 This is actually one of the services of HIX, meaning there's a slight
bit of Hungarian mixed in (the posts themselves are mostly in English,
but the server speaks Hunglish ;-)). MOZAIK brings you original content
(e.g. the schedule of DUNA TV, exchange rates), and digested reposts
of those news items (originating from OMRI, CET and other sources)
that bear directly on Hungary. You can subscribe by
sending a blank email message to <mailto:> and
unsubscribe by sending one to <mailto:>. See
section 3 about searching the HIX archives.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.6  On USENET

 The Hungarian newsgroup in the worldwide hierarchy is
<news:soc.culture.magyar>. It's mostly in English, sometimes
bilingual, and occasionally Hungarian only. The group is archived by
HIX (see its section for 'SCM') and is also readable under
<http://hix.mit.edu/usenet/>;. A similar archive is to be found at
<http://mineral.umd.edu/usenet/>; (see 1.8 below). For www/e-mail
gateways see <http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzetiforum.html>; or the
archives mentioned above.

 Since May 1995 Hungary has its own netnews hierachy, with the following
groups created so far (hun.lists.* are email gateways):
        <news:hun.test>
        <news:hun.news>
        <news:hun.piac>
        <news:hun.comp>
        <news:hun.general>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.forum>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.hunet>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.moka>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.otthonka>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.szalon>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.tipp>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.vita>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.otthon>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.guru>
        <news:hun.lists.hix.kornyesz>
        <news:hun.lists.katalist>

 If you can connect to a remote news server (typically by setting the
NNTPSERVER variable under Unix), then you can get hun.* directly from
news.sztaki.hu or news.iif.hu (the former has been more stable
lately). Fetching articles is much faster from a local source - ask
you system administrator if they can get a feed! In the USA the first
provider offering the hierarchy seems to be AltNet,
<mailto:> to find out about that.  There is a gopher
interface to news: <gopher://mars.iif.hu:70/11/News> (the full URL to
go straight to the hun.* groups is:
<gopher://mars.iif.hu:70/1exec%3A-g%20hun%3A/bin/gonnrp>). 
For accessing groups in the international hierarchy from abroad via
gopher the gateway in the Netherlands may be better:
<gopher://g4nn.cca.vu.nl:4320/1g4nn%20group/soc.culture.magyar>.  The
hun.* groups are also archived by HIX (see its section for 'HUNGROUPS')
and they are also readable under <http://hix.mit.edu/usenet/>; as well
as <http://mineral.umd.edu/usenet/>;.
 HIX provides a universal posting gateway to the soc.culture.magyar and
hun.* newsgroups. Use the addresses:
<mailto:>, for example
<mailto:>. A similar gatewaying service
is also available for soc.culture.magyar via
<mailto:> (see 1.8 below), as well as via
<mailto:> (see also 2.3).

 There are Hungarian local newsgroups available through
<telnet://ludens.elte.hu>, login with username GUEST (no password), and
enter NEWS to start the newsreader (you can use the VMS online help to
learn about it). The guest account is set up for accessing
<news:elte.diaklap> (students' journal at Eotvos U.), but other
newsgroups are available as well. (But please be considerate to the
strained network resources of Hungarian sites - from abroad for
non-local news use other providers.) For ELTE-specific questions
contact <mailto:>. This server is also accessible
via remote NNTP like the two mentioned above, but is often much slower
than those.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.7 'Hungary', the LISTSERV list 

  is a discussion group providing rapid communication
among those with interests in Hungarian issues. Subscribe by 
<mailto:> using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY Yourfirstname Lastname. Once you
have subscribed, any messages which you want to send to the group
should be sent to the group address, <mailto:>.
(This pattern of two addresses is standard: you turn your mail off and
on at the "listserv" address, and you send mail to the listname
address. For example, to  unsubscribe, send the server the message
SIGNOFF HUNGARY. You can temporarily turn off you mail by sending
listserv the message SET HUNGARY NOMAIL. SET HUNGARY MAIL turns mail
back on.) By default the listserv sends out messages as they arrive,
maybe several ones on busier days. If you prefer daily digest format,
you can issue the command SET HUNGARY DIGESTS (again by sending it to
the LISTSERV address); alternatively you can subscribe to HUNGARY via
HIX as mentioned in 2.1, and receive the same format as the other lists
by HIX. LISTSERV has many useful features, most notably database search
on the list archives - to learn more about it, send commands like SEND
HELP, SEND HELP DATABASE.

 Note that the form of addressing LISTSERV lists such as Hungary may
depend a great deal on your local network configuration and mailer
software. For BITNET mailers you need GWUVM only; the local gatewaying
to BITNET may be BITNET% for VAXMail installations and
 at other places. Ask your local network
administrator first if you're experiencing problems.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.8  , the Hungarian-American list

 The Hungarian-American List is an unmoderated discussion forum to
promote communications between people with interest in modern Hungarian
culture and Hungarian cultural heritage. The list brings you, among
other things, news items originating from OMRI, CET, the Hungarian
media and several other sources, that might be of interest for
Hungarians and Americans. The WWW Home Page of the Hungarian-American
list is <http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/>;. Subscribe by
<mailto:>, using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY. The Hungarian Usenet group -
soc.culture.magyar is available for Hungarian-American List subscribers
via email. You can subscribe to this news-to-mail-to-news service by
<mailto:>, using no Subject, in the body of the
letter write SUBSCRIBE SOC-CULTURE-MAGYAR. The WWW address of the
interactive soc.culture.magyar archive is
<http://mineral.umd.edu/soc.culture.magyar/>;.

 (Notice that this Maryland-based list is distinct from the older
LISTSERV list mentioned in 1.7 that has a broader focus - mentioning
'the HUNGARY list' ususally refers to that latter one! Note also that
the Majordomo server syntax is different from LISTSERV for many of
their commands - see the help document sent by the server.)

------------------------------

Subject: 2.  NEWS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS IN HUNGARIAN

------------------------------

Subject: 2.1  HIX

 HIX, or Hollosi Information eXchange, is a non-profit formation run
and supported by several individuals and organizations. HIX was started
in 1989/90 and now it reaches more than 10,000 readers in about 45 countries
around the World.

Its services, mostly in Hungarian, are abundant and change frequently, so
it is best to obtain an up-to-date help file by sending an email message to
<mailto:> (a recent copy of that also seems to be in
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/MAIN/HELP.ALL>; - but please
notice that there are superseded copies scattered in other parts in
the archive on the one hand, and many of the other files in this same
directory are outdated on the other hand; most notably, DO NOT TOUCH
that ancient version of hungarian-faq found there!). Here's a list of
what it currently offers in email digest format:

 HIR      -- 'Hirmondo', current newspaper survey edited in Budapest
 NARANCS  -- The Internet edition of the 'Magyar Narancs' weekly
 TIPP     -- politics-free questions, tips etc.
 SZALON   -- moderated political discussion forum
 FORUM    -- unmoderated political discussion forum
 GURU     -- computer-related questions
 RANDI    -- moderated personals; anonymous submissions possible
 VITA     -- moderated non-political discussion forum
 OTTHON   -- issues around the home
 MOKA     -- jokes, humor (Hungarian and other)
 MOZAIK   -- semi-regular bits of news and other info, mostly in
	     English, crossposts from the OMRI list, VoA gopher, CET
	     and other sources
 HUNGARY  -- daily digest of the Hungary LISTSERV list (see 1.7)
 SCM      -- gatewayed email digest of the Usenet newsgroup
             soc.culture.magyar 

 The following is not available for email subscription from
Hungary, but are accessible via the SENDDOC interface (or the
'finger ' service for the latest issues):
 HUNGROUPS - gatewayed email digest of the hun.* regional newsgroups

 Note that KEP (transcripts from the videotext news from Hungarian
Television's Kepujsag) has been suspended indefinitely - despite what
HIX' own HELP says.

 To subscribe (unsubscribe) to a particular email-journal, send email
to  ) where NAME is one of the
above.

 The postings for the HIX discussion lists are sent out daily in
digested form. You can send your own submission to ,
whatever NAME is (provided it's actually a discussion list).

 The volume for some of these lists is becoming rather high, e.g. TIPP
often digests dozens of messages in hundreds of lines daily!  You ought
to try targeting your audience properly in order to find those who'd
help with your questions; also keep in mind that readers often answer
to the list rather than the individual even when personal reply is
requested, so if you ask something it's a good idea to subscribe also
(even though technically it's not required) instead of just addressing
a list as a non-subscriber. A reminder to those who reply to a post:
always remember that list messages get sent to several thousand readers,
so consider personal email if the subject is not of general interest!
If you answer through a list it's courteous to send a personal copy
(Cc: with most mailers) as well - this may reach the addressee
considerably earlier than the post distributed through the list.
 Notice the (undocumented) feature of the HIX mail-server: it only
accepts submissions if its address is found in the 'To:' header field!
It would quietly ignore incoming email Cc-d to it, so do not put the
 in the 'Cc:' (you can do so with other addressees).

 The HIX server can also send out archived files, see the SENDDOC
function in its description. In case you have any problems or questions
on the HIX services, please read through the automatic help response
first. If you need human intervention you can reach
<mailto:> - but keep in mind that list managers have
to do plenty other than answering things already laid out in the Fine
Manual.

 You can also view the output of HIX interactively. See section 3.

------------------------------

Subject: 2.2  BLA Sajtoszemle

 Daily selection of articles from leading Hungarian newspapers by
the Lajos Batthyany Foundation, published by the Hungary.Network.
 
 To subscribe (unsubscribe), send email to <mailto:>
(<mailto:>). Also available in 123 accent notations
from the <mailto:> address.

 It is also readable on the WWW under <http://www.hungary.com/bla/sajto/>;.

------------------------------

Subject: 2.3  Nemzet Magyar Internet Vilaglap [Hungarian Internet World Bulleti
n]

 [This section is as provided by <mailto:>]

(1) (E-mail news bulletins)
        "Nemzet" Magyar Internet Vilaglap
        E-mail news digest, Mon-Fri, 25-55k. Comprises East-European
        regional news (by OMRI, in English), excerpts from Hungarian
        press (in Hungarian), and reports on newsworthy items (press,
        events, etc., mostly in Hungarian and occasionally in English)

        Subscription/Unsubscription:
        
        
        www:  http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzet.html

        Publisher and Editor in Chief: 

(2) (usenet e-mail digest)
        "Nemzetiforum"
        Digest of "Soc.Culture.Magyar" by means of e-mail bulletin, filtering
        out all lists and postings beyond size 8k.

        Subscription/Unsubscription:
        
        
        www: http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzetiforum.html

        Publisher and Editor in Chief: 

(3) (www/e-mail gateway)
        E-mail message is acknowledged and posted to "Soc.Culture.Magyar",
        with your address and your subject-definition.
        Simply send contributions to  

        Gateway maintained under direction of:


(5) Hungarian Papers on WWW (liberal to conservative)

        (a)     168 ORA
                http://www.atm.com.pl/COM/xlori/168/ora.html

        (b)     KELET-MAGYARORSZAG
                http://www.bgytf.hu/public/keletm/

        (c)     UJVIDEKI NAPLO
                http://www.mediarange.com/media/huncor/organ/naplo/naplo.htm

        (d)     DEMOKRATA
                http://www.siliconvalley.com/demokrata/

        (e)     NEMZET
                http://www.siliconvalley.com/nemzet.html

        (f)     MAGYAR ELET

http://www.mediarange.com/media/huncor/organ/magyarel/hunlife.htm

        (g)     24. ORA
                http://www.infobahnos.com/~jtoth/


------------------------------

Subject: 2.4  Other discussion groups in Hungarian

 A number of email lists are available from servers located in Hungary,
for directory see <gopher://HUEARN.sztaki.hu>. There are many college
publications available online as well, check out the links from the HU
homepage (see below).

------------------------------

Subject: 3. INTERACTIVE SERVICES

 If you are using Hungarian interactive services from abroad (or vice
versa): please note that interactive Internet connections like gopher
may be very slow, even timing out during peak hours - try times of
lower network load when the response time is usually reasonable.

------------------------------

Subject: 3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web

 This document you are reading now is hosted at
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq>;, and its directory
has a few other documents and several links to other sites of
interest.

 The Hungarian Home Page is at
<http://www.fsz.bme.hu/hungary/homepage.html>; with links to the
registered Hungarian www servers, including

     - the Prime Minister's Office:  <http://www.meh.hu>; (overseas users
    please notice that the use of the <http://www.hungary.com/meh/>;
    mirror is requested to cut down transatlantic traffic!)

     - a weather forecast page (this is updated daily, and includes weather
    forecasts, meteorological maps, and METEOSAT satellite images; this
    page is in Hungarian)

     - home pages of Hungarian cities (currently Budapest, Debrecen,
    Miskolc, Pecs, Szeged), and of educational and other institutions 

     - a comprehensive list of Hungarian telnet services (e.g. library 
    databases), gopher and ftp sites (3.2). The content of almost all the 
    Hungarian FTP sites is indexed and can be searched.

 The Hungary Online Directory (HUDIR) is at
<http://www.hungary.com/hudir/>; featuring a hierarchical
database of Hungarian online content worldwide. Currently it has links
in excess of 2500.

 HIX has a WWW server in the USA: the URL is <http://hix.mit.edu>;.
To check out fresh content, see <http://hix.mit.edu/friss2/>;, which
gives you a comprehensive table of content for new material arrived in
the last 24 hours (which is typically in the order of 100-150 pages).
Besides back issues of its email journals, and a plethora of other
files in Hungarian and English, it offers an on-line English-Hungarian,
Hungarian-English dictionary (<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/szotar/>; - its
European mirror is at <http://tpri6l.gsi.de/szotar.html>;), and various
home pages and pointers to other sources. Partial mirrors located in
Hungary are <http://www.eunet.hu/eunet/hix/>; (for the Magyar Narancs
archive), and <http://hal9000.elte.hu/hix/>; (for some pictures, and
searching the Radir database - see below).

 Hungary.Network - The GateWWWay to Hungary at
<http://www.hungary.com/>; has a number of government, commercial and
organizational users listed.

 TourInform is at <http://www.hungary.com/tourinform/>; is the service
of the Hungarian Tourism Service, the official promotion agency of the
Hungarian Tourist Board. They offer practical information, maps,
broshures and even tours on video casette.

 The Open Media Research Institute has a WWW server, available at
<http://www.omri.cz>;.  Available at this Web site are all back issues
of the Daily Digest, tables of contents for Transition, OMRI's
bi-weekly analytical journal, and information about OMRI's activities
and staff.

 The World Wide Web server of Central Europe Today is at the URL
<http://www.eunet.cz>;.

 Find back issues of the Hungary Report on the World Wide Web at 
<http://www.yak.net/hungary-report/>; or <http://www.isys.hu/hol>;. 
The Hungary-Online archive is available from 
<http://www.yak.net/hungary-online/>; or <http://www.isys.hu/hrep>; 
as well.

 There is a growing Hungarian resource directory at
<http://mineral.umd.edu/hir/>;.

 There is a "Foreign Languages for Travellers" collection of essential
Hungarian expressions with English, German and French explanation,
complete with sound at
<http://insti.physics.sunysb.edu/~mmartin/languages/hungarian/hungarian.html>;.

 The American Association of Young Hungarians (AAYH) has its homepage
at <http://www.aayh.org/>;.

 A Hungarian church in Chicago has info at
 <http://users.aol.com/MikeC16958/>;.

 The Gyorgy Bessenyei Teachers Training College (Nyiregyhaza) offers 
some 3000 pages worth of database for Szabolcs-Szatmar-Bereg county 
(Eastern Hungary) as well as other goodies and general Internet help,
in both Hungarian and English: <http://www.bgytf.hu/>;.

 See also section 2.3 above, which covers
<http://www.siliconvalley.com/>; and refers to other links as well.

------------------------------

Subject: 3.2  Gopher and other interactive services

 HIX has a server in the USA: <gopher://hix.mit.edu>. Its services
form just a subset of what it offers as a WWW site. RaDir is sometimes
useful for finding email-addresses, old or new friends on the Net. See
also Section 4.4.

 HIX has a gopher in Hungary as well:
<gopher://hix.elte.hu/11/HIX/HIX>, and another mirror at
<gopher://gopher.bke.hu:71/11/hix> (notice that this latter uses a
non-standard Gopher port number). Check also <gopher://gopher.elte.hu>
and <gopher://gopher.sztaki.hu>. Note that gopher is essentially
text-based (thus less satisfying than the Web) but often faster
(therefore less frustrating).

 CET's gopher is called <gopher://gopher.eunet.cz>.

 HIX documents from the archives of hix.mit.edu are available via the
(Unix) 'finger' protocol. Try 'finger ' to see how it
works.  This may be the easiest and fastest access from some sites.

 There is an electronic library at
<gopher://gopher.bke.hu:71/11/elibhu/> (notice the non-standard port)
that has much Hungarian text material, including some classical
poetry.

------------------------------

Subject: 3.3  ARENA

 An interactive chat service of HIX, run by the Hungary.Network.
Similar to IRC, but it does NOT require any client software. Simply
<telnet:hix.hungary.com> and you are there.

------------------------------

Subject: 4. THE NET IN HUNGARY

 Overview: historically, ELLA was the first home-grown X.25
email-system in Hungary. It survives till this very day. EARN was next,
with its BITNET-like infrastructure (4.1). Full Internet connectivity
is provided by HUNGARNET (see 4.2), which really comprises all
academic, research and public non-profit sites.

 Here's a partial list of its domain names:

bme.hu          Technical University of Budapest
sztaki.hu       Computer and Automation Research Institute, Budapest 
elte.hu         Roland Eotvos University of Sciences, Budapest
bke.hu          Budapest University of Economic Sciences
sote.hu         Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest
abc.hu          Agricultural Biotechnology Center, Godollo 
gau.hu          Godollo Agricultural University, Godollo
klte.hu         Kossuth Lajos University of Sciences, Debrecen
jpte.hu         Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs
u-szeged.hu     Members of the Szeged University Association
bgytf.hu        Gyorgy Bessenyei Teachers Training College
uni-miskolc.hu  University of Miskolc
kfki.hu         Central research Inst. of Physics, Budapest 
vein.hu         University of Veszprem, Veszprem
bdtf.hu         Berzsenyi College, Szombathely
szif.hu         Szechenyi Istvan College, Gyor
blki.hu         Balaton Limnological Res. Inst. of Hung. Acad. Sci.

A schematic map of its topology ('HBONE'):

EBONE    EMPB                          EMPB   EBONE

  ^       ^                             ^       ^
  |       |                             |       |
  |       |   Microwave center ======= IIF Center ------- Miskolci Egyetem
  |       |      Budapest            /   Budapest            Miskolc
  |       |    //  ||    \\         /   //   |
  |       |   //   ||     MTA-KFKI /   //    L--------------- BGYTF
  |       |  //   MBK     Budapest    //     |             Nyiregyhaza
  |       | //   Godollo             //      |
  |      BME              MTA-SzTAKI//       L--------------- KLTE
  |    Budapest ########## Budapest          |              Debrecen
  |      ***                                 |
  |      ***                                 L--------------- GAMF
  L------BKE                                 |              Kecskemet
       Budapest                              |
          #    \                             L---------- Veszpremi Egyetem
          #     \                            |              Veszprem
         ELTE    \                           |
       Budapest   JATE                       L--------------- JPTE
                 Szeged                                       Pecs

 LEGEND

 ***  100 Mbps FDDI
  #    10 Mbps optical cable (Ethernet)
  =     2 Mbps microwave
  |    64 kbps leased line (that's 0.064 Mbps)

Source: HUNGARNET/NIIF (URL <http://www.iif.hu/hungarnet.html>;)

 FidoNet is described in section 4.3, and commercial
networks/email/Internet Providers demand a separate document
('commercial.FAQ'), also see <http://www.sztaki.hu/providers/>;.

------------------------------

Subject: 4.1  BITNET/HUEARN

 What follows is a listing of all EARN nodes in Hungary, with contact
info.  This information is also available on the following gopher:
	 <gopher://cc1.kuleuven.ac.be/11/nodeearn/hungary.helpnode>.

HUBIIF11 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                      
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
      Internet address : hubiif11.sztaki.hu                   
      User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBIIF61 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                    
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
      Internet address : mars.iif.hu                          
      User Info: Istvan ;+36 1 1665644
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBME11  Technical University of Budapest
     Technical University;of Budapest;Muegyetem rkp 9. R. ep;H-1111
     Budapest, Hungary           
     Internet address : atlantis.bme.hu                      
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 4632422               
     Fax : +36 1 1665711             

HUBME51  Technical University of Budapest                                  
     Technical University;Muegytem Rakpart 9;H-1111 Budapest               
     Internet address : bmeik.eik.bme.hu                     
     User Info: Laszlo ;+36 1 1812172                 
     Phone : +36 1 1812172            ; Fax : +36 1 1166711             

HUBPSZ12 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                  
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : hubpsz12.sztaki.hu                   ;
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBPSZ61 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             

HUBPSZ62 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of
     Sciences;Lagymanyosi ut 11;1111 Budapest
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUEARN   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary               
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : huearn.sztaki.hu                     ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 2698286                   
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUECO    University of Economic Sciences Budapest, Hungary                 
     University of Economic Sci;Computer Center;Kinizsi u 1-7;1092 Budapest
     Internet address : ursus.bke.hu                         ;
     User Info: Robert ;+36 1 1175224                    
     Phone : +36 1 1181317            ; Fax : +36 1 1175224             

HUELLA   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary           
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Node admin: Gizella ;+36 1 1497986                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGBOX   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary            
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : hugbox.sztaki.hu                    ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 1497532                
     Phone : +36 1 1497532            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGIRK51 University of Agriculture Sciences
     University of Agriculture;Pater Karoly ut 1;H-2103 Godollo
     Internet address : vax.gau.hu                           ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 28 30200 -1015              
     Phone : +36 28 30200 -1015       ; Fax : +36 28 20804              

HUKLTEDR Kossuth Lajos University Debrecen, Hungary                       
     Internet address : dragon.klte.hu                       ;
     User Info: Robert                           

HUKLTE51 Kossuth Lajos University, Debrecen                                 
     Kossuth Lajos University;Egyetem Ter 1; PF. 58;H-4010 Debrecen        
     Internet address : huni7.cic.klte.hu                    ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 52 18800                      
     Phone : +36 52 18800             ; Fax : +36 52 16783              

HUSOTE51 University of Medical Science Budapest, Hungary                   
     University of Medical Science;SOTE;Ulloi u. 26.;1085 Budapest         
     Internet address : janus.sote.hu                        ;
     User Info: Gabor ;+36 1 1141705                 
     Phone : +36 1 1141705            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866

HUSZEG11 Jozsef Attila University, Szeged, Hungary                         
     Jozsef Attila University;Computer Centre;Arpad ter 2.;H-6720
     Szeged;Hungary                
     User Info: Ferenc ;+36 62 321022
     Miklos ;+36  
     Phone : +36 62 321022            ; Fax : +36 62 322227             

------------------------------

Subject: 4.2  HUNGARIAN ACADEMIC AND RESEARCH NETWORK (HUNGARNET)

 This information is also available on
<http://www.ripe.net/ripe/hungarnet.html>;.

Organisational Structure: 
 HUNGARNET is an association and also the computer network of Hungarian
institutes of higher education, research and development, libraries and
other public collections. HUNGARNET funding comes from the R&D
Information Infrastructure Program (IIF) sponsored by the Hungarian
Academy of Science, the National Committee of Technological
Development, the Ministry for Culture and Education and the National
Science Foundation. About 500 organizations have access to HUNGARNET
services. HUNGARNET as an association represents Hungary in
international networking organizations (e.g. TERENA).

Generic Services:
 HUNGARNET provides access to the Internet and several other national
network services over leased lines and the public packet switched data
network. Lot of different services (e.g. gopher, ftp, WWW, data bases)
provided by member organizations are available on the net. Centrally
supported and coordinated services are:
 - email (internet SMPT, EARN BSMTP, OSI X.400, UUCP, XXX ELLA) 
 - email gateways between the different email systems above 
 - distribution services (LISTSERV, news) 
 - information services (ftp, gopher, WWW servers, data bases) 
 - directory services (X.500) 
 - individual accounts and login

External Connectivity:  
 HUNGARNET is subscriber to EBONE and EMPB/EuropaNET as well. There are
two 64 kbps leased lines to EBONE (Vienna EBS). These two lines should
be upgraded to a single 256 kbps line in the near future.  HUNGARNET
uses two 64 kbps interfaces on the EMPB/EuropaNET node in Budapest as
well. These two interfaces should also be upgraded to a single 256 kbps
interface very soon.

Internal Connectivity: 
 Internal connectivity of HUNGARNET is based partly on the public X.25
service of the Hungarian PTT and partly on the community's private IP
backbone network (HBONE). The kernel of the HBONE infrastructure is in
Budapest, where several important organizations are connected in
different ways (64-256 kbps leased lines, 1-2 Mbps microwave links, 10
Mbps optical Ethernet, 100 Mbps FDDI). Several cities (regional
centers) in the country are also connected to the network via 64 kbps
leased lines (Miskolc, Nyiregyhaza, Debrecen, Kecskemet, Szeged, Pecs,
Veszprem) and 2 Mbps microwave (Godollo). Now there are about 50
organizations directly connected to the backbone and about 50 others
using IP over X.25. The number of the registered, connected hosts is
about ten thousand. There is an ongoing development, new regional
centers (Kaposvar, Keszthely, Szombathely, Sopron, Gyor) and several
organizations in Budapest will be connected subsequently.  Many users
do not have IP connectivity yet but are connected to the public X.25
network. There are several services (e.g. individual login, mail,
gopher, news) that are open for traditional XXX/X.25 access.

Contact Persons:
Miklos NAGY <mailto:> - head of the HUNGARNET/IIF 
					coordination office
Laszlo CSABA <mailto:> - HUNGARNET/IIF technical director
Balazs MARTOS <mailto:> - HBONE project manager
Nandor HORVATH <mailto:> - Local Internet Registry, 
				.hu top level domain contact
IP address and domain administration: <mailto:> 
Network management: <mailto:>

------------------------------

Subject: 4.3  FidoNet

 FidoNet connects through sztaki.hu, as indicated above.

 There are three FidoNet nodes: Budapest NET (2:371/0); West Hungary
Net (2:372/0); and Tisza NET (2:370/0). If you want to write on the
FidoNet, chances are you already know how. *PLEASE* find out what you
are about to do instead of experimenting with the Hungarian net - don't
add to the problems for the folks in Hungary having to deal with the
underdeveloped phone system and outrageous international tolls ;-<. For
further information I post a Fido-sheet separately from this FAQ, where
there are also telephone numbers and further addresses, but again: try
to verify that you are mailing to a valid address (the BBS situation
may have changed since the copy you are reading got updated - look for
current FIDO listing on the net, or better yet contact the person you
want to reach by other means first)!. If you can send Internet email
and have the FidoNet address, you can write to it by transforming it to
appropriate .FIDONET.ORG format.

 Fidonet mail works with Hungarian BBS's but you have to know whom to
reach. I will attempt to maintain a separate Fido posting to Usenet;
please try to make sure you email to a valid address and in particular
avoid using outdated sources on Hungarian BBS's (otherwise your
misdirected trial will burden the Hungarian network coordinator!).

------------------------------

Subject: 4.4  Finding out somebody's email-address in Hungary

 The bigger academic domains have on-line directories (CSO phonebooks):

Technical University, Budapest
      gopher://goliat.eik.bme.hu/11/engl/tel-adat/hazi-tele

Budapest University of Economic Sciences*
      gopher://URSUS.BKE.HU:71/11/kozgaz/telefon
(*under construction)

Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest
      <gopher://xenia.sote.hu:105/2>

Central Research Inst. of Physics, Budapest
      <gopher://sunserv.kfki.hu:105/2>

Members of the Szeged University Association
      <gopher://sol.cc.u-szeged.hu:105/2>

Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs
      <gopher://ipiux.jpte.hu:1051/2>
	<http://ipisun.jpte.hu/cgi-bin/ph.pl>;

University of Veszprem
      <gopher://miat0.vein.hu:105/2>

 ELLA also has an on-line directory: <telnet://hugbox.sztaki.hu:203>
(i.e. address a special port). Note that the opening screen uses
special characters for the accented letters but the data records have
combinations of vowel plus ',: or " instead (i.e. searching for
hollo'si would retrieve a record, but hollosi won't)!

 If the person has registered him/herself with the RaDir database of
HIX, you might try the following (note, however, that most parts of
RaDir are badly out of date):

 - by <gopher://hix.mit.edu/11/HIX/radir> (a link to the same is
offered by <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/>; on the World Wide Web); from
inside Hungary use <gopher://hix.elte.hu/11/HIX/HIX/radir>, or
<http://hal9000.elte.hu/hix/radir.html>; (this last one is a true HTML
search form)). Under RaDir, you'll find the entire database
cross-indexed by search keys.

 - by 'finger +whois:"SEARCHWORD"@hix.mit.edu' you can look up records
containing "SEARCHWORD" string in the database

 - by email: send a blank message <mailto:>. You'll
receive, in several chunks, the entire database of users, their
electronic and snail-mail addresses, etc. You'll need a decent editor
to search what you're looking for.

 If you have some idea what institution to check at, you may find an
online directory service -- many are available, and could be reached
through the Hungarian gophers (or WWW sites) mentioned in section 3.
Try contacting the (electronic) postmaster, usually
, or using 'finger' to inquire about users.

 As a last resort, send in your query to a discussion group. Readers of
<news:soc.culture.magyar>, <mailto:> discussion
list (section 1.7), or some HIX-list (<mailto:> in
particular, see 2.1) may be able to help. Be aware, though, that most
participants are located abroad - especially in the case of the Usenet
group!

------------------------------

Subject: 5.  ODDS AND ENDS

------------------------------

Subject: 5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary

 The electricity is 220 V, 50 Hz. The frequency, in fact, fluctuates a
lot, but it doesn't cause any problem when operating computer devices.
(Don't trust too much your plug-in clock radios though.) If you are
from any country running on 110 V or around, due to complications in
voltage conversion, a battery driven laptop or notebook is your best
bet. However, if you decide to take your desktop system, printer, etc.,
you  have a good chance that the device can also be operated on 220 V.
Check it first before you go through unnecessary trouble. If not, you
have to apply 220 V to 110 V AC converters (you might need more than
one; check the power ratings of your devices & converters). WARNING!
Your converters should be designed for *electronic/motorized devices*.
Refuse any converter for *heating appliances* even if its power rating
is much higher! These converters are not real transformers, and can
cause major damages to your electronic devices.

 Also make sure you are able to connect to the Hungarian grounded power
outlet, because that's what's recommended for your appliances.
Therefore you should try to find grounded plug adapters and/or voltage
converters.  Connecting to ungrounded outlets causes possibly no harm,
but for your own & your devices' safety grounded connections should be
preferred.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2  Conventions & standards for coding Hungarian accents

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.0 Introduction & section overview  

 During the evolution of teletypes and computers, two character tables
survived, acquiring major importance in later computer systems. One is
EBCDIC, primarily used in ancient IBM mainframes. The other one, ASCII,
can be considered today's ubiquitous standard in computing worldwide.
The rest of this section, therefore, pays attention to ASCII code, very
unfairly ignoring EBCDIC, since none of the accent conversion programs
support neither this code table nor the CMS environment.

 Since the language of computing has been English from the beginning,
the original ASCII table was limited to the characters used in English:
letters of the Latin alphabet, a few punctuation marks and some other
special symbols. Since the number of all these characters, plus the
unprintable "control" characters (located in the first 32 positions of
the ASCII table, responsible for different control functions) doesn't
exceed 128, the real 'brilliant' idea of representing the ASCII table
in 7 bits spread like wild fire all over the computer world. No wonder,
that most of the Internet mailers and Usenet hubs are also set up to
forward documents in 7-bit ASCII only.  (Read the rest of the section
carefully to learn how to overcome these problems.) As computing and
word processing started to rise up in the rest of the world, there was
an increasing demand to represent these national characters as well. (A
good example is Hungarian. The extra consonants [nonexistent in
English] are formed by merely juxtaposing 2 (or 3 in case of dzs)
regular Latin characters; so there is no problem here.  However, the
special vowels of the language are denoted by applying different
accents on the Latin 'base-vowel', introducing new characters, the so
called accented vowels.) It's an obvious idea to place these national
characters and other fancy symbols utilizing codes 128 to 255, still
remaining within the byte limit. Different character sets have been
created by defining purpose- or language-specific characters for the
upper half of the table, while keeping the 7-bit ASCII codes unchanged.
(Note:  Some character sets also re-use codes between 0 and 31, the
domain of ASCII control characters, keeping some, or none of them.
Using these codes, however, is pretty difficult, device- and
implementation-dependent, etc.  Therefore it wouldn't be wise to put
accented characters here, but fortunately none of the sets listed below
did it actually.) Hopefully Unicode will ultimately stop this
confusion, but until then there's a long long way to go.

At this point let's clarify the terminology:

... ASCII (also 7-bit or plain ASCII) data:
Usually text (but not necessarily, see 5.2.5.1.), containing only 7-bit
ASCII characters, including the control ones.
... 8-bit (extended) ASCII data:
Text containing the uniform 7-bit ASCII characters, plus special
characters (with code greater than 127) according to one of the 8-bit
character sets.
... Binary data:
Non-text data (executables, pictures, etc.) containing any 8-bit value.

 The different kludges accepted by Internet users to denote accented
vowels in 7-bit ASCII are described in 5.2.1. The most important
extended ASCII character sets are introduced in 5.2.2. 5.2.3 shows the
accented character representations used by high-level formatting
languages. The correct ways of transferring files among word processor
[on the Net] are detailed in 5.2.4. If the data to be transferred is
not 7-bit ASCII, 5.2.5 tells you what to do. Last, but not least, 5.2.6
introduces the programs in the HIX archives (and mentions some others)
that address the problem of conversion between the various types of
accent representation.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.1 House rules for plain (7-bit) ASCII

 If you are limited to the use of 7-bit ASCII, you have essentially the
following choices to deal with the accented characters:

5.2.1.0 No accent marks at all

 Simple and sure-fire. In fact, the most common 'solution'.

5.2.1.1 The '~" coding (also called "marking notation" or "Babai-code")
        [Sometimes nicknamed as _repu~lo"_.]

 Here's a sample:

         O~t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu~nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu~ko~rfu'ro'ge'p
         O~t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru~lt i'ro't nyu'z

or, in the alternative ':" _repu:lo"_ format:

         O:t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu:nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu:ko:rfu'ro'ge'p
         O:t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru:lt i'ro't nyu'z

 Quite readable, though a bit tricky to disambiguate mechanically:
remember, the " or : or ' may also serve as punctuation marks. (This
problem can be handled using Maxent's escaping capabilities, see
5.2.6.6.)

Warning! Don't get confused: in TeX (see 5.2.3.1) " denotes umlaut!

5.2.1.2 The 123 coding (also "numerical notation" or "Pro1sze1ky-code")

 Here's the same text:

         O2t hu3to3ha1zbo1l ke1rtu2nk szi1nhu1st
         a1rvi1ztu3ro3 tu2ko2rfu1ro1ge1p
         O2t sze1p szu3zla1ny o3ru2lt i1ro1t nyu1z

 The only one that's both short and unambiguous, though it takes some
getting used to. 1 stands for the stroke, 2 for the short umlaut, 3 for
the 'Hungarian' or long umlaut (double acute). Very easily converted to
other formats. (Also can be ambiguous, though with much smaller
probability. E.g. U2, CO2, , etc.)

5.2.1.3 Telegraphic style. For example,

         Oet huetoehaazbool keertuenk sziinhuust
         aarviiztueroe tuekoerfuuroogeep
         Oet szeep szuezlaany oeruelt iiroot nyuuz

 Avoid it like the plague because

1. It's ambiguous. (Think of Goethe, Oetker, Eoersi, Csooori, poeen.) 
2. Coding of o" & u" (o3 & u3) is not consistent:
   u3 = ue (fallback to u2), uue, uee, ueue
3. Absolutely not a pleasure to read.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.2 Fancy 8-bit character sets (extended ASCII)

 The following rollcall lists the most important character sets
supported by the majority of hardware and software, including the
accent conversion programs. The available Hungarian accented characters
are detailed for each set.

Notes: 

 Henceforth when referring to an accented character, the numerical
(Pro1sze1ki) notation will be used to maintain clarity.


5.2.2.1 PC-codepages

(*) PC-437: Hardware

 The basic hardware character set of PC-compatible systems. Since it
was supposed to contain many symbols (line drawing characters, some
Greek letters, etc.), and be general, it's pretty poor in terms of
accented characters. Missing Hungarian vowels: o3, u3 [substitute them
with o^ & u^], A1 [substitute it with A-circle], I1, O1, O3, U1, U3.

(*) CWI recommendation for Hungarian accents:

A standard initiative to replace the many house rules of character code
assignment for accents unavailable in PC-437. Codes are assigned as
follows:

o3->147 [o^], u3->150 [u^], A1->143, I1->141 [i`] or 140 [I^],
O1->149 [o`], O3->167, U1->151 [u`], U3->153 [y~]

(*) PC-850: Multilingual

Contains all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.
Note: ? means o, u, O or U.

(*) PC-852: Latin 2

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.

(*) PC-860: Portuguese
(*) PC-863: Canadian-French
(*) PC-865: Nordic

These sets miss various Hungarian accents, esp. in upper case. Using
them for a Hungarian text makes absolutely no sense.

5.2.2.2 ISO character sets

 These character sets are specified by ISO standards. As far as ALL
(not only Hungarian) accented vowels concerned, ISO 8859/1, 2 & 9 is
equivalent to Windows Latin 1, 2 & 5 respectively.

(*) ISO 8859/1:
(*) ISO 8859/3:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

(*) ISO 8859/2:

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.

 Fonts for iso-8859-2 (and some other) character sets can be found at
<ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/font/> for various operation systems, and at
<ftp://almos.vein.hu/ssa/kbd_es_font/> (mirrored at
<ftp://ftp.vma.bme.hu/pub/ssa/kbd_es_font/> and
<ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/ssa/kbd_es_font/>) mostly for Unix. There is
material for Hungarianizing the Linux (and possibly other Unix variant)
operation system at <ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/magyar/linux/>.

5.2.2.3 Others

The following character sets are supported by various laser printers. 
Roman-8 bears special importance as being the default character set of
many printers.

(*) Ventura International & Roman-8:
(*) MC Text:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.3 Text formatting languages

 The text formatting languages listed below, beyond their powerful text
formatting capabilities, also include the specification of [almost] all
the accented characters. These languages give an alternative way of
dealing with accents in 7-bit ASCII, especially if the software that
can display, print or convert these representations is available.
[Unlike notations in 5.2.1, the "raw" files of these languages are not
intended to be read by ordinary users.]

5.2.3.1 [La]TeX. 

 Invented by D. E. Knuth, TeX (pronounce as [tech]; 'X' denotes the
Greek letter 'chi'), and the macro collection based on it, LaTeX, are
today's most popular text formatting languages for document creation
and DTP.

To continue with the same example,

 \"{O}t h\H{u}t\H{o}h\'{a}zb\'{o}l k\'{e}rt\"{u}nk sz\'{\i}nh\'{u}st

 \'{a}rv\'{\i}zt\H{u}r\H{o} t\"{u}k\"{o}rf\'{u}r\'{o}g\'{e}p

 \"{O}t sz\'{e}p sz\H{u}zl\'{a}ny \H{o}r\"{u}lt \'{i}r\'{o}t ny\'{u}z

 This is meant to be printed with TeX or previewed as a dvi file.
 Wholly unambiguous, can be automatically converted to/from several
other formats (see 5.2.6). Also check the babel system for LaTeX with
the Hungarian specific option, available from FTP sites kth.se or
goya.dit.upm.es.

5.2.3.2 HTML (HyperText Markup Language)

 Unfortunately, the HTML-2 standard still does not contain notation for
Hungarumlaut (long umlaut, double acute). We use tilde or circumflex
instead. The preferred notation is o with tilde õ and u with
circumflex û. In the example above,

   Öt hûtõházból kértünk
   színhúst

   árvíztûrõ
   tükörfúrógép

   Öt szép szûzlány õrült
   írót nyúz

5.2.3.3 RTF (Rich Text Format)

 This standard is widespread among Microsoft word processors. For
non-ASCII characters it uses the following coding:

\'XX

where XX is the code of the given ISO 8859/2 (or PC-852 for Word for
DOS) character in hexadecimal.

5.2.3.4 Adobe PostScript

 It is a universal standard for describing any kind of graphics,
including fonts, but it is aimed at producing the final (typically
printed) copy of documents and not at word-processing per se. For a
starter document see <http://www.adobe.com/PS/PS-QA.html>; or
<ftp://wilma.cs.brown.edu/pub/comp.lang.postscript/FAQ.txt> or
<ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.answers/postscript/faq/part1-4>.
If one has the right accented fonts sets then, in theory, the output is
transferable between different machines - but often we run into hurdles
in practice.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.4 Microcomputer products: The word processors 

 Different word processors on different microcomputers use several
proprietary internal control sequences to handle accented characters,
as much as other symbols, and other text formatting commands. If you
want to transfer a document like this, you have to convert this [very
probably] binary file (8-bit ASCII with all kinds of binary crap) to
text (7-bit ASCII), see 5.2.5.1, unless your mailer can handle binary
directly, see 5.2.5.2. Make sure, however, that the recipient of your
document also possesses the same or equivalent word processor, or a
word processor supporting the format you used.

 It might happen that you want to use your document in another word
processing system, or a plain text editor. Today's word processors
offer conversion to a few formats, and also pure text with different
character sets (5.2.2). The resulting file, if necessary, can be
converted further to 7-bit ASCII as shown in 5.2.6. (The output is
already 7-bit ASCII in Microsoft's RTF, see 5.2.3.3.)

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.5 Switching binary to ASCII and vice versa

5.2.5.1 Uuencode & uudecode

 The easiest and most popular way of conversion between binary and
ASCII is the use of the twin sisters uuencode and uudecode. These
programs were created originally for Unix ('uu' stands for Unix to
Unix), but today they are implemented under most platforms.

 Uuencode makes an ASCII file out of a binary one, forming 61 character
long lines to avoid problems excessively long lines can cause in the
different mailer agents. This conversion increases the size of the file
by 40%.  Warning! Understand the really goofy usage of uuencode. The
parameters specify the local & remote BINARY filenames respectively.
The encoded ASCII result is sent to the standard output, it has to be
redirected into a file explicitly. (E.g. uuencode myface.gif myface.gif
> myface.uue )

 Uudecode converts the encoded ASCII file back to binary. It is smart:
using the "begin" and "end" tags placed in the encoded file, uudecode
is able to retrieve the encoded information automatically discarding
everything before and after the tags (headers, signatures, other junk),
even if it's inserted in the middle of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Its
usage is also simple: only the input filename has to be specified; the
original filename is restored from the "begin" tag. (E.g. uudecode
yourface.mal )

5.2.5.2 MIME support

 Many modern mailers support the MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail
Extensions) standard being able to transfer different file formats
beyond plain text. In this case the ASCII/binary conversion is the
mailer's internal affair. Some mailers make explicit calls to uuencode
and uudecode, some others (e.g. PINE) have different built in
conversion algorithms, trying to choose the most appropriate one for
the given binary file. (One type of MIME encoding substitutes an
unprintable character by its code in hexadecimal, preceded by an =
sign. That's why you often see them splattered around.) In either case,
however, the user is not responsible for the conversion, the mailer
takes care of it automatically.

5.2.5.3 Binhex

 BinHex files are 7-bit ASCII text files, typically used for encoding
Macintosh binaries. Conversion is done by various applications, see eg.
<ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.answers/macintosh/general-faq>.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.6 Translating between various accent formats

 From the HIX archives (see section 3) the following programs are
available.  The regular location is 
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/info/programs/>;, though
you should also check <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/>; 
for updates. At the time of this writing the SENDDOC archive is 
extremely ill-organized and outdated in many parts, including, 
unfortunately, the 'new' directory.

 Warning! From abroad always access the HIX archives via 
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/>;,
<gopher://hix.mit.edu/11/HIX/senddoc>,
<mailto:>, or 'finger '
(the latter only works for text, and you may have to redirect it to a
pager or file). The mirror at <gopher://hix.elte.hu> is updated only at
certain periods of time, also there is a limited bandwidth on the lines
connecting Hungary to the world (see section 4).

5.2.6.1 ekezettelenites

 Gabor Toth's UNIX shell script for deleting unwanted accents from mail
files.

5.2.6.2 etex

 Gabor Toth's shareware C source code for converting the marking or
numerical accent notation to TeX-format. It also claims to be capable
of hyphenation. Supports the UNIX platform.

5.2.6.3 hion

 Peter Verhas's C source code. It's an improved version of etex, as it
reduces the probability of incorrect hyphenation with some built-in
exception library. Hion is able to do the conversion between the
numerical (or, redefining each accent mark, also the marking) accent
notation & TeX-format, and remove accents if the input is an accent
notation. Read his documentation. Supported platforms: VMS, MS-DOS,
UNIX. Available from <ftp://ftp.tarki.hu/pub/magyar/TeX/hion.tar.gz>
or <ftp://ftp.digital.bme.hu/hion/>.

5.2.6.4 drtc.c

 Peter Verhas's freeware C source for conversion between text and RTF
(Rich Text Format), character sets ISO 8852/2 (Latin 2), PC-852 (Latin
2) and CWI. The program attempts to find out the inbound format
automatically, RTF or text as well as used character set. The outbound
format is the same as the inbound format, the program changes only the
character set. In other words, the program does not convert from RTF ot
text or from text to RTF. Supported platforms: VMS, MS-DOS, & UNIX and
other platforms supporting ANSI C.

5.2.6.5 hun.c

 Gabor Ligeti's freeware C source code for accent removal and
conversion between the marking & numerical accent notation, TeX-format
and PC-852 (Latin 2) codepage. Warning! Conversion capabilities are not
orthogonal, type hun /? for the supported conversions. No platform
limitations are indicated.

5.2.6.6 MAXENT.UUE_V6.0a

 Peter Csaszar's freeware C source code compressed with pkzip & encoded
with uuencode (see 5.2.5.1). Warning! As of 6/12/95, the HIX gopher's
/HIX/SENDDOC/info/programs directory still contains 'maxent.c', the
very old version V1.4 of Maxent. Don't touch this file, go for version
V6.0a, currently in <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/MAXENT.Z>;.

 Maxent provides 100% orthogonality in conversion between any of the
accent notations listed in 5.2.1 but telegraphic style, and any of the
character sets listed in 5.2.2, allowing multiple notations in the
input file. The domain of conversion includes 6 vowels and 6 accent
types, applying therefore a house rule extension of the marking and
numerical accent notations. (Hoping that this extension becomes widely
accepted, no longer remaining a house rule.) Language accent profiles
other than the default Hungarian can be selected. Further accent
services include accent notation escaping & de-escaping (see 5.2.1.1),
and flexible substitution of the o3 etc. characters.

 Beyond some little services, the rest of the major features provide
comprehensive retabulation strategies, full newline conversion
capabilities and script file execution (ideal for maintaining mail
folders after download).

 The help given by the program can be saved into a file by typing
maxent -h0 > maxent.hlp . Print this file for fancy bedtime reading.

 Maxent supports only the MS-DOS environment, and should be compiled by
a Borland C compiler. This is the sacrifice for the extensive services
provided.

5.2.6.7 ekezet.dot

 Via anonymous <ftp://bme-tel.ttt.bme.hu/pub/income/ekezetes/>, you can
find Kornel Umann's WinWord template capable of many kinds of
conversion.  Also find other goodies in the directory above.

5.2.6.8 hixiso

 Olivier Clary's Unix scripts for converting accented text appearing
on HIX are at <ftp://almos.vein.hu/ssa/kbd_es_font/hixiso.tar.gz>.

------------------------------

Subject:  5.3 Information sources pertaining to the rest of Central Europe

 This section is by no means to be comprehensive. For a big but dated
(1992) list see
<gopher://poniecki.berkeley.edu/00/archives/polish.archives/Network/EE-MotherLi
st>.

 Both OMRI and CET cover the general region in their news. See Section
1.1 and 1.2, respectively.

 To complement the HUNGARY list (see Section 1.7), at the same listserv
at Buffalo there exist the Middle European discussion list MIDEUR-L as
well as POLAND-L and SLOVAK-L. Send the usual command to
<mailto:> (or simply  on
BITNET):

      SUBSCRIBE listname-L Yourfirstname Yourlastname.

 On Usenet there is soc.culture.romanian, soc.culture.czecho-slovak,
soc.culture.polish, and the gatewayed bit.listserv.mideur-l and
bit.listserv.slovak-l; bit.listserv.hungary has been established, but
many sites do not have it. The surest way to receive everything is via
email. If you prefer using Usenet newsreaders you find HIX's HUNGARY
digests posted to soc.culture.magyar (which group does not seem to
suffer the poor propagation affecting some of the bit.listserv
groups).  Please notice that while the listserv groups are
bi-directionally gatewayed, i.e. posts to them get propagated back to
the original mailing list, the posts coming from HIX to
soc.culture.magyar are mere copies of the mailing list messages - do
not reply to the newgroups since your answer won't reach the email
readers (who constitute a likely large majority).

 Speaking of limitations of distribution be aware that some commercial
Internet connection providers (most blatantly American Online)
established their own groups with topics overlapping existing Usenet
hierarchy. The utility of these local groups is seriously limited since
they are, unlike the open real Usenet newsgroups such as those
mentioned above, unavailable to anyone but their own subscribers (i.e.
a small domestic fraction of all the Internet/Usenet users worldwide).
Please do not post to non-local groups saying how nice would be to use
these specialized forums - we can not. Use the newsgroup
soc.culture.magyar or the mailing lists!

 The Central European Regional Research Organization (CERRO) can be
joined at <mailto:> with the command
SUBSCRIBE CERRO-L Firstname Lastname.  This is a scholarly group that
deposits papers and the like in an electronic archive in Vienna.  The
archive is accessible with anonymous <ftp://wu-wien.ac.at>, or with
<gopher://gopher.wu-wien.ac.at>.

 The Eastern Europe Business Network ) is
primarily remarkable for its size (1700+ subscribers). Messages tend to
be brief bursts of announcements, questions and, unsurprisingly, calls
for or queries about business. The list is administered by Yale's Civic
Education Project (Chris Owen, <mailto:>). To
subscribe, send a message to the address
<mailto:> that has

             subscribe e-europe YourFirstName YourLastName
in its body.

 The repository for Voice of America material, accessible with
<gopher://gopher.voa.gov>, also contains some information and news
items relevant to the region.

 Check the NATO archive for goodies: <gopher://gopher.nato.int>.

 The Slovakia Document Store will answer all your questions about
Slovakia:  on the World Wide Web, <http://www.eunet.sk>;, via
<gopher://gopher.eunet.sk>, via <ftp://ftp.eunet.sk/slovakia/>, via
gophermail: send a message with Subject: HELP
<mailto:>.

------------------------------

Subject: 6.  CONTRIBUTORS TO THIS FAQ

(the order is alphabetical by last name)

Beke Tibor     <mailto:>           general layout, 2.1, 5.3
Bruner, Rick   <mailto:>     1.3
Csaszar Peter  <mailto:>   5.1, 5.2
Fabian Peter   <mailto:> 3.1, 4.1, 4.4
Fekete Zoli    <mailto:>           much of the rest
Hewes, Cameron <mailto:>      1.2
Hollo Kriszta  <mailto:>         4.2
Toth, Joseph   <mailto:>, section 2.3
Umann Kornel   <mailto:>        5.2
Varnum, Ken    <mailto:>       1.1

 If you have a question or remark regarding some specific section, you
may want to contact its author. The FAQ as such continues to be
maintained by Zoli Fekete <mailto:>. The keeper hereby
expresses the many thanks we all owe to every contributor - and above
all to Tibor Beke who brought about this cooperative effort, and took
upon consolidating the whole (with Peter Csaszar who took over the
next-to-last editing). Still, any errors (with the exception of the
independently maintained section 2.3) are the responsibility of Zoli -
who'd like to hear all corrections, recommendations or just comments
readers may have!
 Acknowledgement is also due here to Jozsef Hollosi and Arpad Palotas,
for providing webspace to this FAQ on the HIX server and helping to
improve its homepage, respectively.

------------------------------

Subject: 7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

 One of these days ;-) there will be a guide here about how to handle
all the strange things that you may see embedded in this text; but in
the meantime, if you don't know yet what URLs are and are not reading a
copy thru a WWW browser that may show a selectable link: just do the
sensible thing and use email to access 'mailto:' addresses, ftp for
'ftp:' and telnet for 'telnet:'...

 Updated versions of this document will be in
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/posted>;
or <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq>. Notice
that the canonical Usenet archive <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu> is often
overloaded - if you can't get connected try one of the mirror sites (of
which a list by countries can be found in
<ftp://mirrors.aol.com/pub/rtfm/usenet/news.answers/news-answers/introduction>
that is also available thru the RTFM mail-server shown below) - eg.
<ftp://mirrors.aol.com/pub/rtfm/usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq> in
the USA! You can also retrieve it via <mailto:>
with the command "send usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq" in the body
of the message, or via 'finger '.
 A brief extract of hungarian-faq, concentrating on the email services,
is also available now
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq-pointer>; or 
'finger '.
 A separate document on network service providers in Hungary
prepared independently by John Horvath <mailto:> is
available via email from its author or via
<http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/comm-providers>;.

 This hungarian-faq is expected to be updated at least every couple of
months, due to the rapid changes occuring on the net. If you are
reading a copy whose 'Last-modified:' date shown on top is older than
that then many parts may be out of date - in this case get the recent
one from the sources listed above, and/or try to convince the
administrator of the site keeping the old copy to freshen it. Please
notice that retrieving from the Usenet archives is likely a lot faster
than asking me personally (and most everything I can answer is already
in here)! If you do write me <mailto:>, then give a
descriptive 'Subject:' line - keep in mind that much of my incoming
email deemed unworthy by me is deleted unread in order to keep up with
the high volume I am receiving (most of it from various mailing
lists). The best way to ensure catching my attention - and to allow
automatized pre-processing - is to start it with 'ZFIX:' (the name my
mail-handler answers to is Zophisticated Free Information eXchange, in
case you were wondering :-)).

 This work as a collection is copyright (1990-96) Zoli Fekete, and
parts are copyright of their respective authors. Please do not
redistribute substantial portions without contacting the maintainer.
 Unauthorized publishing in off-line media - such as printed, CD-ROM or 
magnetic databases - is explicitly prohibited!  
--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 

SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

> Does anyone know of an annual festival of dancehouse (tanchas)music?  Hungara
ton has released
> compilation albums for about ten years.  If there is an annual event, I would
 like to visit
> Hungary when it is occuring.

The Tanchaztalalkozo is at the Nepstadion in Budapest this
year on April 6 and 7.

Myself and several of my collegues here at the University of Texas are in 
the process of starting up a new, free e-journal that deals broadly with 
the issues of Human Rights and Technology.  Since there seems to be an 
intersection between the kinds of issues that you deal with and the things 
that we are hoping to be publishing, we thought that you might be willing 
to publicize our call for papers and/or our journal.  Thank you very much. 
And feel free to forward this cfp on to anyone else you think might be 
interested.
___________________________________________________________________________

                                  Monitors
                    A Journal of Human Rights and Technology


		     http://www.cwrl.utexas.edu/~monitors/


                          Call for Papers/Projects

We are now accepting papers/projects/proposals for the inaugural edition of 
Monitors: A Journal of Human Rights and Technology. As far as we are aware, 
this journal is the first to encourage both activist and academic 
approaches to the broad concerns of human rights by focusing specifically 
on the impact of technological advance. Monitors is intended to fill a gap 
in contemporary human rights scholarship (understood as a mix of theory and 
practice) by using new information technologies to analyze the various 
forms of oppression/repression and human rights violations that have always 
accompanied the advancement of technology. Monitors will be a forum where 
the medium of the World Wide Web itself connects and enables the changing 
nature of information, documentation, activism, and human rights.

With this call for projects for the inaugural issue of Monitors, we 
encourage submissions that focus on technology as it pertains to the 
evolving discourses surrounding human rights. Because initially Monitors 
will be available only as a web publication, we look forward to receiving 
submissions that both utilize web technology and question the utility of 
that technology for scholars and activists.  As such, we envision the scope 
of this journal to include, but not be limited to, these possible topics:

	prisons and political prisoners;
	torture and disappearance;
	cultural narratives of technology and human rights;
	travel, tourism and technology;
	transnational/mulitnational corporate expansion;
	developing markets;
	labor rights and exploitation;
	development projects;
	transfer of technology;
	enviro/eco-politics;
	pollution and industrial/resource management;
	medicine and health services;
	genetic engineering and social engineering;
	States and NGOs;
	population control;
	exploitation, representation and appropriation of indigenous peoples;
	privatization of human rights and resources;
	military research and development;
	communications technologies and control;
	internet as activist resource;
	urgent action;
	theoretical/philosophical treatments of technology and human rights.

	Please send submissions and inquiries before March 31,1996 to:

                          
                                 or snailmail to:
                                    Monitors
                              c/o Joseph Slaughter
                                    PAR 108
                              Department of English
                           University of Texas @ Austin
                               Austin, Texas 78712

Please email us before sending web projects so that we can arrange for the 
easiest method of submission.

       (editors: Bret Benjamin, Bill Paredes-Holt, Joseph Slaughter)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Megvan az informa'cio'.  Gondoltam tova'bbi'tom ha ve'letlenu:l valaki ma'st is
 szinte'n 
e'rdekelne.  Szombaton, Feb. 10e'n lesz a Reme'nyse'g ba'l a Hannover Mariott "
Grand Ballroom"ban 
Whippany, New Jerseyben (I80 ro'l de'lre I287re.  Exit 39B ra'te'r a 10es u'tra
 (nyugatra).  A 
hotel a bal oldalon lesz teha't a ko:vetkezo" jelo:lt Uturn-on vissza kell ford
ulni e's ma'ris 
ott lesz).
A ba'lt az MBK (Magyar Bara'ti Ko:zo:sse'g) rendezi.  Forma'lis ("Black tie"). 
 7:30:kezde's.  
8:30 vacsora. 9:30-2ig (debutante bemutata's, (ba'li) ta'ncola's zenekar'hoz). 
 $85 jegy ($65 
dia'koknak).  Rezerva'cio' szu:kse'ges.  To:bb informa'cio't Somogyi Ilona'to'l
 lehet kapni 
(718-237-1116).  KB 200 fo"t va'rnak.
          
                                      Csaba

I just got the information, and I thought I'd pass it on just in case it intere
sts someone else 
as it did me.  The Hope Gala Ball will be held on Saturday, Feb. 10 in the Gran
d Ballroom of the 
Hannover Mariott in Whippany, New Jersey (directions:  I80 to I287 south.  Exit
 39B to Route 10 
West.  The hotel is shortly on the left.  take the first marked U turn and ther
e you are).
The ball is put on by the MBK (Friends of Hungary).  It is the first year.  It'
s formal - black 
tie.  Cocktails at 7:30, dinner at 8:30, dancing and the introduction of the de
butantes starts at 
9:30, goes till 2am.  The ballroom dancing is to a band (I don't know how many 
pices).  Tickets 
are $85 ($65 for students), reservations necessary.  You can get any additional
 
details/reservations with Ilona Somogyi at 718-237-1116 (home).  They expect ab
out 200 persons.

                                       Peter

Peter Gabor > wrote:
>Pont most hallottam, hogy lesz valami magyar ba'l te'telezem New 
>Jerseyben e szombaton (Feb. 10).  Csak azt nem tudom, hogy hol, mikor, 
>milyen, mennyi, tulajdonke'ppen semmi ma'st nem tudok ro'la (ba'r olyan 
>benyoma'st kaptam, hogy a'tlagna'l fiatalabb lesz a ko:zo:nse'g).  Lenne 
>olyan szi'ves valaki to:bb informa'cio't adni ro'la.  Elo"re is 
>ko:szo:no:m
>                               Ga'bor Csaba                               
>
>I just heard that there will be a Hungarian Ball somewhere in New Jersey 
>this Saturday (Feb. 10).  Unfortunately, I have no other details on it 
>such as place, time, cost, type of event, etc (but I did get the 
>impression that it would be a younger crowd than average).  Would some 
>kind soul care to enlighten me, please.  Thanks in advance.
>
>                               Peter Gabor
>
>

Hungarian Lobby Digest     Thursday, 8 February 1996     Volume 01 : Number 034


      ***       Greetings from the Hungarian Lobby      ***
      ***                                               ***
      *** subs/unsubs info:      ***
      *** send articles to:              ***
      *** www:              http://mineral.umd.edu/hl/  ***
      *** directory:        http://mineral.umd.edu/hir/ ***
      *** ftp:    ftp://mineral.umd.edu/pub/hl/archive/ ***

In this issue:
--------------

	[none]
	Way Station Hungary - Comings and Goings
	FYI - Virus Alert
	Re: FYI - Virus Alert
	Polish help
	Slovakian gerrymandering
	Way Station Hungary - Comings and Goings
	Miskolci Elektronikus Galeria
	Re: Slovakian gerrymandering
	Law on secret agents... 
	HL Magyarorszagon...
	new member

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the Hungarian Lobby
 
or Hungarian Lobby Digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

From:  (Dr. Wieslaw K. Binienda)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:23:08 -0500
Subject: [none]

Please include me in your list. Thank you
Dr. Wieslaw K. Binienda

Dr. Wieslaw K. Binienda
The University of Akron
Civil Engineering Department
Akron, OH 44325-3905
USA



------------------------------

From: "Joseph A. Balazs" >
Date: 07 Feb 96 20:58:22 EST
Subject: Way Station Hungary - Comings and Goings

February 7, 1996

Rumania's  1989 revolt was hijacked, inquiry finds
  By Karin Popescu
     BUCHAREST, Feb 5 (Reuter) - The head of a parliamentary inquiry into
Romania's bloody 1989 anti-communist revolt on Monday accused the country's
present leaders and other ex-communists of highjacking the uprising.
     "In 1989, Romania had a revolution until December 22, which eventually was
highjacked by the present leadership," Senator Valentin Gabrielescu, of the
opposition National Peasant Party, told Reuters.
     His remarks echoed a wide-spread belief in Romania, where the 1989 events
are still clouded by doubts and conspiracy theories, that the revolt was
masterminded by members of the Securitate secret police and middle-ranking
communist officials.
     Six years on President Ion Iliescu and his leftist ruling Party of Social
Democracy still face allegations he and other former communists took control of
what hard started as a popular uprising against Stalinist dictator Nicolae
Ceausescu.
     Iliescu has repeatedly rejected the allegations.
     Many Romanians still know little about what really happened in December
1989 when almost 1,200 people were killed and thousands more were wounded after
crowds rose to protest against Ceausescu's rule.
     Some 900 people were killed between December 22, 1989, when Ceausescu and
his wife Elena fled Bucharest, and their execution three days later.
     Gabrielescu said some 350 people, including Iliescu, ex-Securitate
officials, army and militia officers and members of the now-defunct Communist
Party politburo had given evidence to the committee over the past three years.
     He said the 500-page report failed to clarify the question of Ceausescu's
alleged secret accounts as well as the circumstances of the killing of 40
military personnel at Bucharest's Otopeni airport during the uprising.
     After a hasty trial, Ceausescu and his wife Elena were executed under
charges of genocide, undermining the national economy and possessing more than
$1 billion in secret accounts in foreign banks.
     Ceausescu's missing billion is one of the lingering mysteries of Eastern
Europe's bloodiest anti-communist revolt.
     In 1992 a special Senate committee probed Ceausescu's finances but drew a
blank and concluded that the investigation has been launched only "for the sake
of appearances" without any serious commitment by the government.
     Parliament is expected to discuss Gabrielescu's report during its present
session ahead of general elections scheduled for this autumn.

Rumanian president denies seeking Moscow's help
BUCHAREST, Feb 6 (Reuter) - Romanian President Ion Iliescu on Tuesday denied
accusations in the media that he had sought Moscow's help during a 1989
revolution which many Romanians say was hijacked by his leftist allies.
     The accusations are the latest in a smear campaign spearheaded by Iliescu'
s
opponents and his erstwhile ultra- nationalist allies, who accuse him of being 
a
Russian spy in his youth or of selling the country to a Jewish conspiracy.
     Iliescu has publicly denied those accusations.
     For the first time since he swept to power in a bloody revolution six year
s
ago, Iliescu's office issued documents showing he had not sought the help of
ex-Soviet leader Mihail Gorbachev in order to oust late dictator Nicolae
Ceausescu.
     According to the shorthand of the first meeting of the post-revolutionary
leadership, Iliescu had not asked Moscow to send troops against so-called
"terrorists" who wrought havoc during the December 1989 revolution, in which
more than 1,000 people were killed across Romania.
     "Gorbachev said that Romania had not asked for military support and that
Russia hadn't expressed its willingness to provide it either," the document
quoted Iliescu as telling fellow revolutionary leaders more than six years ago.
     The presidency said the move was meant to deny "fabrications by the media
and politicians about the Romanian revolution and the legitimacy of the Nationa
l
Salvation Front" -- a reference to the loose body headed by Iliescu which seize
d
power during the revolution.
     Ceausescu and his wife Elena were were shot by firing squad in December
1989 after a summary trial by a military court.
     Presidential elections are due later this year and opinion polls show
Iliescu far ahead of his main opposition rival, Democratic Convention leader
Emil Constantinescu.

German police baffled by marauding Rumanian gangs (Imagine: "stateless gypsies"
being able to pose the "biggest threat to [Germany's] internal security." JAB)
    By Fiona Fleck
     BONN, Feb 6 (Reuter) - German police said on Tuesday they had rounded up a
gang of Romanian thieves -- part of a growing new crime phenomenon which a
senior law enforcement official described as the "biggest threat to internal
security."
     The authorities have linked more than 5,000 crimes last year to gangs of
Romanians who sneak over Germany's eastern border to gather rich pickings in
lightning raids.
     But police have been baffled by the elusive bandits, who often hide out in
forest huts and disused buildings, and are virtually impossible to trace becaus
e
they rotate with other gang members back home.
     Police in southwestern Germany said they had arrested five members of the
gang and were investigating 20 more suspects for 50 big robberies, receiving
stolen goods and contract arson.
     They said the gang were responsible for many brutal attacks and had injure
d
several victims, including an elderly couple pulled out of bed and beaten in th
e
middle of the night.
     Bavaria's Interior Minister Guenther Beckstein said last month gangs of
Romanian safecrackers were sweeping through southern Germany. He said they had
opened 226 safes in Bavaria since the start of 1994 and 113 suspects had been
detained.
     He warned that safe theft and quick break-ins by the Romanians had already
reached neighbouring countries and called it "the biggest threat to internal
security" in Germany.
     Across Germany, authorities registered 1,531 cases in the first 10 1/2
months of 1995 where thieves broke into safes or carried them off, causing
damage worth 21.6 million marks ($14.7 million), Beckstein said.
     Germany's mass circulation daily Bild reported that the gangsters were
former officers trained by the Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceaucescu's hated
Securitate secret service, after a suspect spoke of camps where ex-officers
trained in thievery.
     Romania's Interior Minister Doru Ioan Taracila visited Bavaria in December
and said he would send Romanian detectives to help German police in the states
of Bavaria and Brandenburg.
     But Bucharest officials have tried to play the problem down, according to
the Frankfurter Allgemeine daily, which quoted the head of the ruling PDSR part
y
Oliviu Gherman as dismissing them as "stateless gypsies" and not Romanians.

    Rumanenbande aufgeflogen - Kujau bestohlen 2-6-96 (Fascinating detail about
their brutality, these "stateless gypsies." JAB)
  Tubingen (dpa) - Eine brutale Gangsterbande mit einem 29jahrigen Rumanen an
der Spitze ist in Suddeutschland aufgeflogen. Die 25 Rumanen, Deutschen und
Turken sollen bei mindestens 50 Coups - vom spektakularen Einbruch bis zur
Auftragsbrandstiftung - Schaden in Millionenhohe angerichtet haben, teilten
Polizei und Staatsanwaltschaft Tubingen am Dienstag mit. 
 
    Opfer war auch Hitlertagebuch-Falscher Konrad Kujau (57), der eine Galerie
in Stuttgart hat. Die Einbrecher stahlen zwei seiner Bilder. Kujau beobachtete
einen der Tater und zeichnete fur die Fahnder ein Portrat.
 
    Die mutmaslichen Tater wohnten in Baden-Wurttemberg und Rheinland-Pfalz,
berichteten die Ermittler. Die meisten seien Rumanen, darunter untergetauchte
Asylbewerber. Ein 45jahriger Deutscher war Fahrer. Die Verdachtigen handelten
"professionell, entschlossen und haufig auch brutal". Funf Bandenmitglieder
sitzen in Untersuchungshaft.
 
    Als Kopf der Bande gilt ein Rumane. Er steht nach Angaben der Ermittler auc
h
bei einem versuchten Raubmord unter dringendem Tatverdacht: Der Reutlinger
Speditionsunternehmer Willi Betz war im Mai 1995 uberfallen, niedergeschossen
und dabei schwer verletzt worden. Der verdachtigte Rumane wurde in Frankreich
gefast. Mit der Auslieferung des 29jahrigen wird im Fruhjahr gerechnet.
 
    Bei ihren Beutezugen - meist in Suddeutschland - schuchterte die Bande nach
Darstellung der Polizei Opfer ein und mishandelte sie mit Handschellen, Reizgas
,
Elektroschockgeraten und Schuswaffen. Ihre Beute verschob die Bande vor allem a
n
Metzgerei- und Gaststattenbesitzer in Rheinland-Pfalz.
 
    Im Mai 1993 sollen Bandenmitglieder bei Wurzburg ein altes, seh- und
horgeschadigtes Ehepaar mishandelt und mit einer Waffe bedroht haben, um einen
Tresorschlussel zu bekommen. In Goppingen maltratierten sie den Angaben zufolge
einen Juwelier und raubten Schmuck fur 30 000 Mark. Vermutlich im Auftrag eines
Diskoinhabers im nordbadischen Sinsheim sollen sie fur einen Versicherungsbetru
g
1993 Feuer gelegt haben, bei dem rund 600 000 Mark Schaden entstand. dpa rr bh
ch  

EU's van den Broek to Rumania, Slovakia (Does this, then, mean the Commission i
s
satisfied with Rumania's treatment of minorities? JAB)
   BRUSSELS, Feb 7 (Reuter) - European Foreign Affairs Commissioner Hans van de
n
Broek visits Romania and Slovakia from Wednesday to Friday this week to compare
notes on their preparations for joining the European Union.
     A Commission spokesman said van den Broek would meet Romanian President Io
n
Iliescu and Prime Minister Nicolae Vacariou in Bucharest and Slovak President
Michal Kovac and Prime Minister Vladimir Meciar in Bratislava.
     Both countries signed Europe Accords in 1993 with the promise of future
membership of the bloc and both handed in formal applications to join in June
last year.
     The EU summit in Madrid last December agreed the bloc would open formal
membership talks with countries it deemed ready to join, six months after the
conclusion of the open-ended review of the Maastricht treaty that starts next
month.
     The spokesman refused to reveal the Commission's view of how the two
countries are faring in implementing the institutional, political and economic
reforms deemed necessary by the EU.
     He said only that it would publish its analysis just before membership
talks began.
     But an EU source said the Commission was unhappy about the degree of
implementation of economic reforms in Romania, and dissatisfied with the
treatment of minorities in Slovakia.
     Van den Broek will report on his visit to the next meeting of EU foreign
ministers on February 26. The ministers are due to meet their Romanian and
Slovakian counterparts in Brussels the following day.

More than 160,000 Rumanian miners on strike (Attractions of Transylvania: gold,
zind, lead, uranium. At the time of Columbus, Transylvania supplied about 1/2 o
f
Europe's gold.  Importance of uranium can best be understood by reflecting on
who Rumania's allies are. JAB)
 BUCHAREST, Feb 6 (Reuter) - More than 160,000 Romanian miners -- some 80
percent of the country's mining workforce -- started a one-day strike on
Tuesday, a miners' union leader said.
     The strike could cripple supplies to the major coal-fired power plants at
Rovinari and Turceni in southern Romania, Marin Condescu, head of the miners'
trade unions federation said.
     "There's nothing else we could do. Now is the right time to strike over ou
r
demands," Condescu said in a reference to heavy snows which are blanketing the
Balkan country.
     "Managers say they will shut down the Turceni plant and that Rovinari will
also run out of coal stocks within six hours," Condescu told Reuters.
     He put the losses incurred from the one-day strike at 110,000 tonnes of
coal, or nearly half the daily supply to Romania's thermal power plants.
     Coalminers make most of the strikers but the industrial action is also
affecting gold, zinc, lead, uranium mines.
     The strikers were picketing coal, gold and non-ferrous mines across
Romania, over demands ranging from job security and lower wage taxes to
retirement rights after 25 years in service.
     Tuesday's stoppage follows a two-hour warning strike by miners in the coal
and metal industries last week.
     Miners leaders, who will meet government negotiators on Thursday, are
threatening an indefinite stoppage starting February 12 unless their demands ar
e
met.

Top US general visits Rumania
 (Corrects dateline)
     BUCHAREST, Romania (Reuter) - The chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of
Staff, Army Gen. John Shalikashvili, arrived in Romania Wednesday to discuss
closer ties with the former communist country within the Partnership for Peace
(PFP) grouping.
     Shalikashvili said he would meet Romanian President Ion Iliescu, Defense
Minister Gheorghe Tinca and senior army officers to discuss future cooperation
under PFP, which is designed to forge closer military links between NATO and
ex-Soviet bloc states.
     In 1994 Romania was the first East European country to sign up for PFP.
     Shalikashvili declined to comment on whether Washington would accept
Romania's recent offer to open its military facilities on the southwest border
with Serbia for the stationing of Bosnia-bound U.S. or NATO troops.
     Before leaving for Italy Thursday to visit U.S. troops stationed there,
Shalikashvili will review the 400-strong Romanian engineers contingent due for
deployment as part of the NATO-led multinational Bosnia peace implementation
force (IFOR).
     He will visit American troops in Bosnia and meet NATO commanders and
Bosnian leaders Friday and Saturday.
 Shalikashvili starts Romanian visit

Der Papst besucht Ungarn: Tausendjahrfeier fur Kloster (Pope to visit Hungary
for 1000-year anniversary of cloister at Pannonhalma)
 Budapest (dpa) - Die Tausendjahrfeier des Klosters Pannonhalma in Westungarn
steht im Mittelpunkt des Ungarn-Besuchs von Papst Johannes Paul II im Juni. Die
Einzelheiten des Besuchsprogramms sollen, wie die Nachrichtenagentur MTI am
Mittwoch berichtete, in der kommenden Woche beim Besuch von Ministerprasident
Gyula Horn im Vatikan festgelegt werden. Horn wird voraussichtlich auch mit dem
Papst zusammentreffen.  dpa ze bs 

Rumania counter-espionage under parliament control
  BUCHAREST, Feb 6 (Reuter) - The upper house of Romania's parliament endorsed 
a
law on Tuesday which puts the country's post-communist counter-intelligence
service under parliamentary control.
     The upper Senate passed the law on the Foreign Information Service (SIE)
with a majority vote, parliament officials said.
     The bill has to be debated by parliament's lower Chamber of Deputies and
promulgated by President Ion Iliescu before it comes into force.
     Under the new law, the SIE, led by General Mihai Talpes, will be
subordinated to Romania's Supreme Defence Council headed by President Ion
Iliescu, and will be controlled by a members of parliament's defence
commissions.

France sells missiles to Rumania, Indonesia
PARIS, Feb 5 (Reuter) - French missile maker Matra has clinched contracts to
sell air-to-air missiles to Romania and ground-to-air missiles to Indonesia, th
e
authoritative newspaper Le Monde said on Monday.
     Matra confirmed to Reuters there had been separate sales to a central
European country and to an Asia-Pacific country but would not identify the
countries involved.
     Le Monde said the sale of Magic-2 missiles to equip Romanian air force
MiG-21's, 23's and 29's was the first French sale of military equipment to an
east European country since the fall of the Berlin Wall.
     The newspaper said Matra was pitted against American, Russian and Israeli
firms and that it had opened talks with other east European countries about
sales of the same missiles.
     The air defence missiles sold to Indonesia were of the Mistral type alread
y
sold to Singapore and South Korea, the newspaper said.
     No figures were available for the new contracts but their value was
believed to run into hundreds of millions of francs ($one - 5.05 francs).

Hungarian parliament debates secret service law
 BUDAPEST, Feb 6 (Reuter) - Hungary's parliament opened debate on Tuesday on a
bill that could expose more government officials' past links to the
communist-era security police.
     The current law, which was passed in March 1994 and applies only to
top-level government officials and functionaries, must be revised after a
Constitutional Court ruling that it is too narrow.
     Current Socialist Prime Minister Gyula Horn admitted during his May 1994
campaign that he had been a conscript during the bloody supression of the 1956
revolution. But that did not hinder his election.
     Debate will focus on how best to broaden the law, but there is little
political momentum for change. Cooperation with the security police was
pervasive throughout society, and many Hungarians believe the past should bette
r
be forgotten.
     "There is no perfect solution to this problem," Interior minister Gabor
Kuncze told parliament on Tuesday.
     Former conservative Prime Minister Peter Boross, who once headed the secre
t
services, told parliament that widening the scope of the investigation could
hamper current operation of the security services.

Hungary clears last hurdle to OECD - diplomats
  PARIS, Feb 7 (Reuter) - Hungary has cleared the last hurdle to joining the
OECD group of 26 leading industrialised economies later this year, diplomatic
sources said on Wednesday.
     It is now on the way to becoming the second post-Communist country to join
the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, hard on the heels of
the Czech Republic, they said.
     The last genuine obstacle to membership was removed on Wednesday when an
OECD committee on foreign investment and capital movements gave the go-ahead,
the day after a meeting here with a delegation led by Hungarian Finance Ministe
r
Lajos Bokros.
     Diplomats said Hungary now hoped its application to join the Paris-based
forum would be completed in time for it to attend an annual ministerial meeting
of OECD nations in Paris in May.

Crime in Hungary rose 29% in 1995
 BUDAPEST, Feb 7 (Reuter) - Crime in Hungary rose 29 percent last year from 199
4
in terms of the number of incidents reported, mainly because of rising fraud an
d
other non-violent crimes, police said on Wednesday.
     Fraud rocketed more than fourfold to 112,592 cases, while tax evasion and
social security cheating rose 162 percent. Drug-related crimes were the third
fastest growing category.
     Crimes affecting public safety rose only 1.8 percent.
     Police still feel they are fighting an uphill battle, strapped by rising
costs and insufficient funds for law enforcement.
     "Lack of funds is the basic limiting factor in police effectiveness," said
Interior Minister Gabor Kuncze.
     "Private companies entice police officers with salaries three to five time
s
higher," said the head of the Hungarian police, Lieutenant-General Sandor
Pinter.

Hungarian poverty quintupled since 1989 - World Bank
    BUDAPEST, Feb 7 (Reuter) - Poverty quintupled in Hungary between the end of
communism in 1989 and 1993, the World Bank said in a study.
     In the four-year recession that ended in 1993, Hungary's gross domestic
product dropped almost 20 percent, boosting unemployment and exacerbating incom
e
inequality, the report said.
     High inflation -- now about 30 percent a year -- has also eroded the value
of savings and fixed incomes, it said. A summary of the report, which will be
published on February 14, was obtained by Reuters.
     In 1993, 8.6 percent of Hungarians had monthly income less than the 6,400
forint (around $44 today) minimum pension level, compared with 1.6 percent in
1989.
     If the poverty line is set higher, at 1.5 times the minimum pension,
one-third to two-fifths of the population fell below it in 1993, compared with
less than five percent in 1989.
     A World Bank official said further revisions in the data were possible.
     Government data show that real wages rose three percent in 1994 but then
dropped an unprecedented 10.5 percent in 1995 as inflation outpaced wage gains.
     The World Bank study recommended a better targeting of benefits and
increased support for the worst off, but conceded that even present levels of
financial aid could be a huge burden on the state budget.
     Income distribution in Hungary is still more equal than in neighbouring
Western countries, the report said.
     Central Statistical Office data show that Hungarians' average monthly net
income in 1995 was 26,474 forints. As of January 1, the minimum pension was
raised to 9,600 forints.
     According to one public policy group in Budapest, the subsistence income
level for a family of four is 72,000 forints.
  ($-144.23 Forint)

   Alitalia will Malev-Beteiligung verkaufen 2-7-96 (Alitalia wants to sell its
MALEV share)
  Mailand (dpa) - Die staatliche italienische Fluggesellschaft Alitalia S.p.A.
(Rom) will mit dem Verkauf von Immobilien und Beteiligungen sowie geringeren
Personalkosten aus der Finanzmisere fliegen. Schon in Kurze musten das
Alitalia-Verwaltungsgebaude in Rom im Wert von bis zu 400 Milliarden Lire (372
Mio DM) sowie die 30-Prozent-Beteiligung an der ungarischen Fluggesellschaft
Malev verkauft werden, sagte Alitalia-Prasident Renato Riverso am Dienstag
abend. 
 
    Die Kosten je Flugstunde musten um mindestens funf bis zehn Prozent
reduziert werden, um wieder wettbewerbsfahig zu werden, hies es weiter. Riverso
appellierte an die Piloten, ihre Gehaltsforderungen entsprechend
zuruckzuschrauben. 
 
    Die Finanzsituation von Alitalia sei kritisch, da die Eigenmittel 1995 unte
r
600 Milliarden Lire gesunken und die Verschuldung auf uber 3 500 Milliarden Lir
e
gestiegen seien. Da die angestrebte Kapitalaufstockung in Hohe von 1 500
Milliarden Lire (1,39 Mrd DM) ohne ein mit dem fliegenden Personal
ausgehandeltes Sanierungs- und Rationalisierungsabkommen nicht moglich sei,
musten Beteiligungen und Immobilien verkauft werden. dpa ds sl/ot 


------------------------------

From: John Czifra >
Date: 8 Feb 96 12:30:55 
Subject: FYI - Virus Alert

To: SHI_All
cc:  
From: Darron Gross/SHI
Date: 02/08/96 11:44:42 AM
Subject: FYI - Virus Alert

    Subject: Virus Alert
      
SUBJECT:  VIRUSES--IMPORTANT PLEASE READ
IMMEDIATELY
      >>
There is a computer virus that is being sent across the
Internet.   If you receive an e-mail message with the subject
line "Good  Times",   DO NOT  read  the  message, 
DELETE it immediately.  Please read the messages below. 
Some miscreant is sending  e-mail under  the title "Good
Times" nation wide, if you get anything like this, DON'T
DOWN LOAD THE FILE!   
It has a virus that rewrites  your  hard  drive, obliterating 
 anything on it.  Please be careful and forward this mail to 
anyone you care about.
      
***************************************************** 
      >>
WARNING!!!!!!!  INTERNET VIRUS
The FCC released a warning last Wednesday concerning a
matter of major importance to any regular user of the
Internet.
Apparently a new computer virus has been engineered by a
user of AMERICA ON LINE that is unparalleled in its
destructive capability.  Other more well-known viruses such
as "Stoned", "Airwolf" and "Michaelangelo" pale in
comparison to the prospects of this newest creation by a
warped mentality.
What makes this virus so terrifying, said the FCC, is the
fact that no program needs to be exchanged for a new
computer to be infected.  It can be spread through the
existing e-mail systems of the Internet.  Once a Computer is
infected, one of several things can happen.  If the computer
contains a hard drive, that will most likely be destroyed.  If
the program is not stopped, the computer's processor will be
placed in an nth-complexity infinite binary loop - which can
severely damage the processor if left running that way too
long.
Unfortunately, most novice computer users will not realize
what is happening until it is far too late.  Luckily, there is one
sure means of detecting what is now known as the "Good
Times" virus.  It always travels to new computers the same 
way in a text email message with the subject line reading 
 "Good Times".  Avoiding infection is easy once the file has 
been received - not reading it!  The act of loading the file  into
the mail server's ASCII buffer causes the "Good Times"
mainline program to initialize and execute.

The program is highly intelligent - it will send copies of itself
to everyone whose e-mail address is contained in a
receive-mail file or a sent-mail file, if it can find one. It will
then proceed to trash the computer it is running on. The
bottom line  here is - if you receive a file with the subject 
line "Good  Times", delete  it immediately!   Do not read it. 
Rest assured that whoever's name was on the "From" line
was surely struck by the virus.  Warn your friends and local
system users of this newest threat to the Internet! It could 
save them a lot of time and money.
      
      ----- End Included Message -----

 

 


------------------------------

From: Laura Slaughter >
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 14:28:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: FYI - Virus Alert

This doesn't actually exist, someone started it as a joke. 

Laura


On 8 Feb 1996, John Czifra wrote:

> To: SHI_All
> cc:  
> From: Darron Gross/SHI
> Date: 02/08/96 11:44:42 AM
> Subject: FYI - Virus Alert
> 
> 
>     Subject: Virus Alert
>       
> SUBJECT:  VIRUSES--IMPORTANT PLEASE READ
> IMMEDIATELY
>       >>
> There is a computer virus that is being sent across the
> Internet.   If you receive an e-mail message with the subject
> line "Good  Times",   DO NOT  read  the  message, 
> DELETE it immediately.  Please read the messages below. 
> Some miscreant is sending  e-mail under  the title "Good
> Times" nation wide, if you get anything like this, DON'T
> DOWN LOAD THE FILE!   
> It has a virus that rewrites  your  hard  drive, obliterating 
>  anything on it.  Please be careful and forward this mail to 
> anyone you care about.
>       
> ***************************************************** 
>       >>
> WARNING!!!!!!!  INTERNET VIRUS
> The FCC released a warning last Wednesday concerning a
> matter of major importance to any regular user of the
> Internet.
> Apparently a new computer virus has been engineered by a
> user of AMERICA ON LINE that is unparalleled in its
> destructive capability.  Other more well-known viruses such
> as "Stoned", "Airwolf" and "Michaelangelo" pale in
> comparison to the prospects of this newest creation by a
> warped mentality.
> What makes this virus so terrifying, said the FCC, is the
> fact that no program needs to be exchanged for a new
> computer to be infected.  It can be spread through the
> existing e-mail systems of the Internet.  Once a Computer is
> infected, one of several things can happen.  If the computer
> contains a hard drive, that will most likely be destroyed.  If
> the program is not stopped, the computer's processor will be
> placed in an nth-complexity infinite binary loop - which can
> severely damage the processor if left running that way too
> long.
> Unfortunately, most novice computer users will not realize
> what is happening until it is far too late.  Luckily, there is one
> sure means of detecting what is now known as the "Good
> Times" virus.  It always travels to new computers the same 
> way in a text email message with the subject line reading 
>  "Good Times".  Avoiding infection is easy once the file has 
> been received - not reading it!  The act of loading the file  into
> the mail server's ASCII buffer causes the "Good Times"
> mainline program to initialize and execute.
> 
> The program is highly intelligent - it will send copies of itself
> to everyone whose e-mail address is contained in a
> receive-mail file or a sent-mail file, if it can find one. It will
> then proceed to trash the computer it is running on. The
> bottom line  here is - if you receive a file with the subject 
> line "Good  Times", delete  it immediately!   Do not read it. 
> Rest assured that whoever's name was on the "From" line
> was surely struck by the virus.  Warn your friends and local
> system users of this newest threat to the Internet! It could 
> save them a lot of time and money.
>       
>       ----- End Included Message -----
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: "Andrew L. Simon" >
Date: 02 Feb 96 13:35:15 EST
Subject: Polish help

Dear Colleagues:

Some Polish-American academic types expressed interest in helping the Hungarian
Lobby. They would like to cooperate with us in lobbying for common causes.  It
will probably means only a few new names for a while, until the Kosciusko
Foundation's newsletter gets out with the information.
The ancient Polish-Hungarian friendship, and the voting power of over ten
million Polish-Americans, may be of some help for us in the future. 
Please welcome our friends as they show up.

Greetings,
Andrew Simon


------------------------------

From: "Andrew L. Simon" >
Date: 05 Feb 96 14:42:23 EST
Subject: Slovakian gerrymandering

Dear Colleagues:

The Slovak Government is planning ro rearrange the administrative (incl. voting
)
districts by the end of this year.  This move will be far more punitive toward
the Hungarian minority than the language law. The planned measure is not
announced yet, but it is coming.  We will have ample notice to bring it to the
attention to the world.

Slovakia's east-to-west mountain ranges make St. Stephen's thousand years old
county system quite logical. Hungarians are concentrated on the southern slope
where they are about 86 percent of the population. This allows them proper
parliamentary representation. However, with the proposed new districting,
running north to south, Hungarians will never have more than 11 percent
majority.

I really have no idea what the Hungarian Lobby could (or would) do in this case
.
We can not deliver elementary democracy to Slovakia. But we have time to plan
and prepare, so let's do it.

Other:
According to someone on the Hungary Forum of CompuServe, Steve Forbes is the
only Republican candidate who came out in full support of including Poland,
Hungary, and the Czechs into Nato.  let's keep it in mind.

Greetings,
Andrew Simon


------------------------------

From: "Joseph A. Balazs" >
Date: 05 Feb 96 20:58:41 EST
Subject: Way Station Hungary - Comings and Goings

February 5, 1996

Perry insists on NATO's expansion east (Translation: During this administration
,
there will be no expansion. Now there is also Kohl's cover. There seems to be n
o
truth to the rumor that Perry also said in Munich: "I believe it is peace for
our time." JAB)
  BONN, Feb. 4 (UPI) -- U.S. Defense Secretary William Perry said Sunday NATO
must be enlarged eastward by allowing former Soviet satellites to join the
Atlantic alliance despite Russian objections.
   Speaking at a conference of international security experts in Munich, Perry
said NATO should at the same time "extend a hand" to the Russians, offering
further treaties to deepen the "partnership for peace" between Russia and the
alliance.
   German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, addressing the same conference Saturday,
stressed that Russian sensitivities on the issue must be respected.
   Russian Deputy Defense Minister Andrei Kokoshin warned Western defense
experts that expanding NATO could cause a severe political backlash in Russia.
   He said admitting such former communist countries as Poland, Hungary and the
Czech Republic would breach the agreements under which the old Soviet bloc's
Warsaw Pact was dismantled and Moscow gave approval for German reunification in
1990.
     Both Kohl and NATO Secretary-General Javier Solana are expected to go to
Moscow later this month to try to assuage Russian fears that expanding the
alliance would be a hostile act directed against an increasingly isolated
Russia.


  Russischer Kommunistenchef warnt Westen vor NATO-Osterweiterung  2-4-96 (The
leader of the Russian Communists warns against NATO's expansion east)
  Davos (dpa) - Der Fuhrer der russischen Kommunisten, Gennadi Sjuganow, hat am
Sonntag beim Weltwirtschaftsforum in Davos den Westen vor einer
NATO-Osterweiterung gewarnt. Der Russe, der einer der aussichtsreichsten
Kandidaten fur die im Juni anstehende Prasidentschaftswahl ist, sagte, die
Aufnahme neuer Mitglieder in die westliche Allianz wurde weder die Sicherheit
Europas noch die der mittel- und osteuropaischen Lander steigern.
 
    Gleichzeitig erklarte er, das er Rusland im Falle seines Wahlsiegs nicht in
die Vergangenheit der Sowjetunion zuruckfuhren werde. Am Vortag hatte der
Kommunist ebenso wie sein Konkurrent bei den Prasidentenwahlen, der Reformer de
s
Liberalen Blocks Jabloko, Grigori Jawlinski, in einer Diskussionsrunde vor eine
r
moglichen Verschiebung der Wahl gewarnt. "Das russische Parlament mus alles
dafur tun, das die Wahlen sicher und friedlich durchgefuhrt werden", sagte
Jawlinski.
 
    Wahrend in Munchen bei der 33. Konferenz fur Sicherheitspolitik
US-Verteidigungsminister William Perry und NATO-Generalsekretar Javier Solana a
m
Sonntag einen verstarkten Dialog mit Rusland und den Staaten Mittel- und
Osteuropas ankundigten, sagte Sjuganow im Schweizer Wintersportort: "Das
Blocksystem hat seine Zeit gehabt." Es sei tot und vergangen. "Wir haben immer
noch Zeit, unsere Nachbarn davon zu uberzeugen, das die Mitgliedschaft in einem
militarischen Bundnis ihre Sicherheit nicht verbessern wird", sagte der
kommunistische Prasidentschaftskandidat. Und: "Wenn militarische Blocks wieder
ihre Muskeln spielen lassen, fuhrt dies zu nichts Gutem."
 
    "Ich sehe nicht, wie das (die Osterweiterung/Red.) gut sein kann fur die
europaische Sicherheit, wenn die Beziehugnen zu Rusland nicht gut sind", sagte
Sjuganow weiter. "Wir sollten nicht uber militarische Konfrontation, sondern
uber Dialog und Vertrauen sprechen."
 
    Wirtschaftlich will Sjuganow, der in Davos die Gelegenheit nutzte, seinen
Wahlkampf fortzusetzen, bei einem Wahlsieg fur Stabilitat sorgen - genau das,
was heute fehle. Nach seiner Meinung werden die USA auch in Zukunft "die
Supermacht" sein und Europa, China und Japan die anderen wirtschaftlichen
Zentren darstellen. Der Russe bemerkte dazu: "Ich habe das Gefuhl, das das neue
vereinte Deutschland nicht ganz in das grosere Europa hineinpast." Er wolle in
Rusland eine verlasliche Wirtschaftspolitik machen und nicht "alle drei Monate"
Anderungen wie derzeit. Um eine "wirtschafliche Katastrophe" zu vermeiden,
musten unbedingt die Beziehungen zu Weisrusland und der Ukraine gestarkt werden
.
dpa hph st  

    Fronten zwischen NATO und Moskau um Osterweiterung weiter hart 2-3-96
(Important points for non-German speakers: the lines between Russia and the Wes
t
on NATO expansion have hardened. Kohl declared the wishes of eastern countries
to join are legitimate, Russia has no veto right. Deputy Defense Minister
Kokoschin denounced and called expansion plans an injustice of historical
proportions. He accused the West of not having kept its disarmament
committments. [Comment: this really recalls the breathtaking taking of libertie
s
with the truth for which his predecessors had been famous. Russia has violated
repeatedly the CFE treaty and even the concessions the Clinton administration
has made.] German Defense Minister Ruhe rejected the Russian charges. The left
of center opposition party's (SPD) foreign policy spokesman Scharping declared
that Europe can not now dependably rely on the United States in matters
affecting Europe and beyond NATO's scope.
Munchen (dpa) - Im Streit um die Osterweiterung der NATO sind die Fronten
zwischen dem westlichen Bundnis und Moskau weiterhin verhartet. Trotz des
Widerstands aus Rusland sprach sich Bundeskanzler Helmut Kohl (CDU) am Samstag
bei der 33. Munchner Sicherheitskonferenz fur eine behutsame Offnung gegenuber
den mittel- und sudosteuropaischen Landern aus. Zugleich betonte er jedoch: "Ei
n
Vetorecht Ruslands gibt es nicht." Der stellvertretende russische
Verteidigungsminister Andrej Kokoschin nannte die Plane eine "historische
Ungerechtigkeit".
 
    Kohl sagte, der Wunsch der ostlichen Nachbarlander nach einem NATO-Beitritt
sei legitim. Allerdings musse man dabei auch die "wohlverstandenen
Sicherheitsinteressen Ruslands und der Ukraine" berucksichtigen: "Wer mit einem
Gefuhl des Triumphes an dieses Thema geht, der geht in die Irre", erklarte er
vor rund 170 internationalen Verteidigungsexperten. Kohl wird voraussichtlich
noch im Februar nach Moskau reisen.
 
    Kokoschin sagte, die russische Bevolkerung lehne die Osterweiterung
einhellig ab. Es werde als Niederlage empfunden, das man im Zuge der deutschen
Wiedervereinigung nach Osten zuruckgewichen sei und die NATO sich jetzt in dies
e
Richtung ausbreite. Zudem warf er dem Westen vor, Verpflichtungen zum Abbau des
Militararsenals nicht eingehalten zu haben. Mit besonderer Besorgnis werde in
Moskau beobachtet, das der Westen moglicherweise Atomwaffen in den fruheren
Warschauer-Pakt-Staaten stationieren konnte.
 
    Der Bonner Verteidigungsminister Volker Ruhe (CDU) wies Kokoschins Vorwurfe
zuruck. Deutschland habe nur zugesagt, keine alliierten Truppen in den neuen
Bundeslandern zu stationieren: "Andere Verpflichtungen gibt es nicht." Kohl
nannte die Einbeziehung Ruslands in die internationale Friedenstruppe fur
Bosnien ein "Modell" fur kunftige Zusammenarbeit.
 
    Der Kanzler und auch der Bonner SPD-Fraktionschef Rudolf Scharping forderte
n
einen starkeren Ausbau der sicherheitspolitischen Komponente in der EU. Dabei
komme der WEU (Westeuropaischen Union) eine wichtige Rolle als
"Verteidigungskomponente" der Gemeinschaft zu, erklarte Kohl.
 
    Scharping sagte als neuer ausenpolitischer Sprecher seiner Partei, die
Europaer konnten sich kunftig nicht immer auf die USA verlassen, wenn es um
europaische Aufgaben auserhalb der NATO-Verpflichtungen gehe. Zur weiteren
Integration in der EU sind nach Ansicht von Scharping "Souveranitatsopfer" der
Partner notig. "Vertiefung a la carte nur dort, wo es anderen wehtut, kann es
nicht geben", erklarte er laut Redemanuskript.
 
    Der franzosische Verteidigungsminister Charles Millon bekraftigte die
Absicht seines Landes, sich wieder starker in der NATO zu engagieren.
Voraussetzung sei aber eine Reform des Bundnisses. Zudem musse die EU die
Verteidigung als Teil ihrer Politik sehen. Der NATO-Militarausschus soll nach
Ansicht von Millon kunftig die Rolle einer Schnittstelle zwischen der Politik
und Militar spielen.
 
    Am Sonntag wird unter anderem der amerikanische Verteidigungsminister
William Perry zu der zweitagigen Tagung erwartet.  dpan w/bk mg  

"Sprachenberater" in der Slowakei erstmals im Einsatz 2-1-96 ( Important
points:For the first time and on a trial basis, four "consultants on languages"
have been employed to oversee the observance of the new language law.  For two
months, t hese "consultants" will be in the three districts that have large
Hungarian majorities and a portion of Pozsony. Their duty will be to monitor
violations on the part of the media as well as organizing against the law and
"patiently" encourage the law breakers for voluntarily reforming their actions.
)
 Bratislava (dpa) - In der Slowakei sind am Donnerstag erstmals vier
"Sprachenberater" versuchsweise eingesetzt worden, die die Einhaltung des
Slowakischen als Staatssprache uberwachen sollen. Ubeltatern, die gegen das End
e
vergangenen Jahres vom slowakischen Parlament gebilligte entsprechende Gesetz
verstosen, durften sie allerdings noch kein Busgeld auferlegen, meldete die
tschechische Nachrichtenagentur CTK aus der slowakischen Hauptstadt Bratislava
(Presburg). Dazu seien sie erst von 1997 an berechtigt.
 
    Wie die Leiterin der Staatssprachen-Sektion beim slowakischen
Kulturministerium, Daniela Stevcekova, am Donnerstag sagte, werden die
Sprachenberater zwei Monate lang in drei uberwiegend von Ungarn besiedelten
Bezirken des Landes sowie in einem Stadtteil von Bratislava tatig sein. Vor
allem sollen sie eventuelle Verstose der ortlichen Medien sowie der Werbung
gegen das Staatssprachengesetz uberprufen und Gesetzesverletzer "geduldig" zur
freiwilligen Besserung veranlassen.
 
    Uber das Gesetz sind vor allem die mehr als 500 000 Ungarn in der Slowakei
emport. Diese hatten fruher bei Behordengangen die Moglichkeit, ihre
Muttersprache als Amtssprache zu nutzen. Zudem wird auch in ungarischen Schulen
Slowakisch immer mehr als Hauptsprache durchgesetzt. dpa ja hm  

   Rumanischer Ex-Regierungschef Roman kandidiert fur Prasidentenamt 2-3-96
(Petre Roman declares his candidacy for the presidency.

Some items you may not know about this man who would be president.

In an article from the December 1989 period, The New York Times describes the
"Roman" part of his name as a < nom de guerre.>

The "Romans" come from an old Hungarian Jewish rabbinical family. His father
adopted "Roman" when he left Transylvania to join the Communist side in the
Spanish civil war. The name "Roman" is distinctly non-Rumanian. It is a
Hungarian word, means Rumanian, and was intended as an in-your-face expression
of his family's and his enmity toward all Hungarians, regardless of religion.

The Times' use of nom de guerre is apt in a way surely unintended: Roman has
waged war on both Hungarians and Jews. He has been careful throughout to never
leave his foot or fingerprints. He has been effective. 

Hungarians in Transylvania and elsewhere described the events of December 1989
as having been a Hungarian revolution and a Rumanian coup. At the very least, i
t
met with Soviet understanding. Gorbachev was quoted as having commented that th
e
Rumanian model was the kind of reform he welcomed: overthrow the unpopular,
corrupt, brutal (by even Communist standards) incumbent and replace him with
another Communist. The events we continue to see unfolding in Rumania bear out
both the Hungarian view and expressed desire of Gorbachev.

Some of the evidence for the coup from a May 18, 1990 article in the Wall Stree
t
Journal.

1. Romania Libera, then Rumanias largest independent daily, claims that
transcripts of the meetings of the "Salvation Front" show that preparations for
a  takeover of the government had begun at least six months before the
"revolution" in December of 1989.

2. Minutes after it was known that Ceausescu had fled, Petre Roman went to the
then-party headquarters where he was soon to be joined by now-President Iliescu
and other then-and-now key military and civilian leaders. The "reforms" read on
the air showed every sign of having been carefully prepared, not drafted
spontaneously.

Within a month of the above revelations, the offices and printing facilities of
Romania Libera were ransacked, the paper effectively shut down. The staff of th
e
paper was subjected to house searches on trumped up charges.

Among many others, The Economist,  ABC TV in an hour-long program, all  cast
doubt on the "fact" of a "revolution."

With the exception of literally a handful of Rumanians, all of the participants
in the "revolution" who have been imprisoned on false charges are Hungarian,
often without trial. There was to have been amnesty for all (Article 1 of Law
3/1990 of January 4, 1990). It has been mainly the criminals of the Ceausescu
era who have been set free. JAB)

 Bukarest (dpa) - Der fruhere rumanische Ministerprasident Petre Roman (49) hat
am Samstag seine Kandidatur fur die Prasidentschaftswahlen im Herbst dieses
Jahres bekanntgegeben. Damit wurde er seinen fruheren Verbundeten aus
Revolutionstagen, den rumanischen Staatsprasidenten Ion Iliescu herausfordern.
 
    Iliescu hat seine Kandidatur noch nicht offiziell angekundigt, doch gilt si
e
als wahrscheinlich. Wichtiger Konkurrent Romans ist auch Emil Constantinescu,
der Kandidat des Oppositionsbundnisses Demokratische Konvention.
 
    Roman ist Vorsitzender der Demokratischen Partei - Nationale Rettungsfront
(PD-FSN), die seit 1992 mit 13 Prozent der Sitze als Oppositionspartei im
Parlament vertreten ist. Roman war von 1989 bis 1991 Ministerprasident. Er wurd
e
von Iliescu abgesetzt, nachdem es in Bukarest gewaltsame Zusammenstose zwischen
Gegnern Iliescus und Bergarbeitern gegeben hatte. dpa kl hm  

Rumanian president sacks communication minister (The descripiton of the
political background is interesting.JAB)
BUCHAREST, Feb 1 (Reuter) - President Ion Iliescu on Thursday confirmed the
sacking of Romania's communications minister, ostensibly for giving a protege a
key job but also in a move likely to isolate a leading nationalist party.
     "The president has agreed with Prime Minister Nicolae Vacaroiu's demand to
sack Communications Minister Adrian Turicu," said Iliescu's spokesman Traian
Chebeleu.
     Chebeleu said Economic Reform minister Mircea Cosea had been appointed
acting communications minister.
     Turicu's removal followed his appointment of a close aide to lead the
ROMTELECOM phone monopoly over the head of another candidate nominated by a
parliamentary committee and backed by the ruling Party of Social Democracy
(PDSR).
     But it may have more to do with a political power struggle.
     Vacaroiu was unable to resist demands of the PDSR to remove Turicu, a
member of anti-Hungarian National Unity Party (PUNR) which has kept the PDSR in
power. Analysts say the PDSR tries to marginalise the PUNR ahead of elections
later this year.
     The PUNR, which also controls the agriculture, justice and transport
portfolios has threatened it would withdraw from the coalition if Iliescu signe
d
Turicu's dismissal.
     The PUNR, with its openly anti-Hungarian platform has become an
embarrassment to the ruling party which sees its future in Euro-Atlantic
integration. Western diplomats have told Iliescu in no uncertain terms that the
PUNR is an unacceptable partner.
     The reshuffle is the second in a month and follows new appointments to the
industry and trade posts. Analysts expect the PUNR appointees in the farm, and
transport ministries to be vulnerable ahead of parliamentary and presidential
elections expected in October after which the PDSR wants to rule alone.

Holbrooke begins farewell European trip
 WASHINGTON (Reuter) - U.S. envoy Richard Holbrooke, architect of the Bosnia
peace agreement, set off Friday on a farewell tour of Europe before he leaves
government service later this month, U.S. officials said.
     Holbrooke was traveling first with Secretary of State Warren Christopher o
n
a weekend tour of former Yugoslavia that will take in Croatia, Bosnia and
Serbia. When Christopher goes on to the Middle East Sunday, he will begin his
own tour starting at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.
     A provisional itinerary has him continuing to Poland, Romania, Hungary,
Turkey, Greece, Cyprus, Britain, France and Italy, returning to Washington Feb.
18, officials said.
     Holbrooke has informed President Clinton he plans to quit his post as
Assistant Secretary of State for European and Canadian Affairs Feb. 21.
     An original purpose of his trip was to launch a new bid to resolve the
problem of Cyprus, divided between Greek and Turkish communities. But officials
said he had given that up, partly because Turkey does not yet have a new
government after elections there in December.
     Instead he hopes to ease tension between Greece and Turkey over the Aegean
.
Holbrooke earlier this week helped to prevent the two NATO allies coming to
armed conflict over a small and uninhabited Aegean island.
     Holbrooke was Washington's chief mediator in negotiations that led Bosnia'
s
warring factions to reach a peace agreement last November in Dayton, Ohio. His
blunt manner is widely credited with having brought the Balkan leaders into
line.
     Holbrooke, 54, a former head of the Lehmann Brothers investment house, is
expected to return to private business.


------------------------------

From: Somosvari Bela >
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 11:56:54 +0000 (CET)
Subject: Miskolci Elektronikus Galeria

Ko:szo:ntom O:no:ket!

 Nemre'gen indi'tottam itt a Miskolci Egyetemen egy elektronikus gale'ria't
 azzal a ce'llal, hogy a re'gio' ke'pzo"mu've'szeti eseme'nyeiro'l 
tudo'si'tsa a web vila'got, es a varosunk tukorkepehez a halozaton 
hozza'ja'ruljon. 
  Az elke'pzele'sekro"l tervekro"l re'szletesebben a gale'ria 
bekoszontoje'ben is olvashatni: 

http://swvi.szkp.uni-miskolc.hu/gopher/Galeria/galeria.html

Amiert irok O:no:knek az egy tervem:
              A millecentenariumi ev kapcsan szeretnek egy anyagot gyujteni, 
amiben a barhol e'lo" magyar  es magyar szarmazasu muveszek szerepelnenek 
fenykepukkel, 3-5 keppel, egy rovid bemutatkozo szoveggel,az evforduloval 
kapcsolatos gondolataikkal. Az anyag egy folyamatosan bovulo" kia'llita's
lenne, ami az evfordulo kapcsan osszehozna' egy "kia'llitoterembe" az 
aka'rhova' is elsza'rmazott magyar mu"veszeket. Itthon bemutatkozhatna a 
ta'vol e'lo" e's a ta'vol e'lo"k megismerhetne'k az itthon alkoto'kat.
 
Ezzel kapcsolatban va'rom szives ve'leme'nyu:ket, segito" gondolataikat. 
Talan segithetnek a dolgot ismertte tenni es tamogatokat talalni./Nem 
minden alkoto'mu"ve'sz rendelkezik Internet kapcsolattal, s o"ket is 
szeretne'm ele'rni./
  
Udvozlettel :
			Somosva'ri Be'la 

				







------------------------------

From: DARREN E PURCELL >
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:39:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Slovakian gerrymandering

Does anyone know where to get the map of the current elctoral districts? 
I am curious because there is something the HL could do. While I don't 
always agree with the efforts of the list, this is something that can be 
challenged in the courts based on European and AMerican studies. Thus, 
pressure on Slovakia via this could at least dealy the whole thing. 
Gerrmandering for vote dilution is not highly thought of in the EU. 

Andrew, one thing, no district is natural. even with the Tatras ans 
highlands as natural boundaries, there is never one that is natural. 

Darren Purcell

------------------------------

From: Kadar Gyorgy >
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:40:00 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Law on secret agents... 

	Dear Friends,
	I would like to draw your attention on the events in connection 
with the legislation on secret police agents.
	Many of us sent our letters to the Office of the Prime Minister.
	On Saturday, January 3, 1996, a meeting was organized by the 
Nyilvanossag Klub (Publicity Club or Media Club) in order to express 
views of Hungarian intellectuals on this matter, in a hall of the  
Budapest University of Economy. A whole page advertisement was released 
by the organizers. The press echo of this event was cited by the BLA news 
service, available for example on the soc.culture.magyar (SCM) newsgroup.
	Today, on Tuesday, January 6, 1996, the Hungarian Parlament 
discussed the draft law, tomorrow the BLA (Batthyanyi L. Alapitvany)
news certainly will cite the newspaper articles.
	Keep being informed...
	Bela Liptak spent several days in Budapest, Sunday he left for 
Amsterdam. During his stay the idea of a Class Action Suit emerged, to be 
initiated against the government on the basis that the secret agent law 
certainly will be discriminating among the persons involved.
Bela will surely describe better what all this is about, and how we could 
act again.
	God bless us all...		KadarGyorgy

------------------------------

From: Kadar Gyorgy >
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:56:43 +0100 (MET)
Subject: HL Magyarorszagon...

	Kedves Barataim,
	Liptak Belaval a mult heten tobbszor beszelgetve egyre inkabb 
kirajzolodott annak a szuksegessege, hogy az itthoni HL szimpatizansokat 
egyutt meg tudjuk szolitani, es kozos akciokban valo reszvetelt kerjunk 
toluk. En szivesen elvallalom a dolog szervezeset, mint ahogy meg is 
jelent a nevem es cimem a HL lista alakulasakor, mint itthoni referencia 
pont.
	Kerem ezert a HL lista magyarorszagi olvasoit es szimpatizansait, 
hogy szinte csak egyetlen sorban jelezzek keszseguket, ha specifikusan 
itthoni, vagy Karpatmedencei HL-akcioban hajlandok reszt venni.  Igy 
megtudhatnam az e-mail cimeket es alkalomadtan mindenkit szemelyes 
levellel kereshetne'k meg.
	Isten velunk...			kadargyorgy 

------------------------------

From: "Andrew L. Simon" >
Date: 07 Feb 96 20:01:56 EST
Subject: new member

Please add the following new listing:
Laszlo Papp


He is the president of the American branch of the World Federation of Hungarian
s


------------------------------

End of Hungarian Lobby Digest V1 #34
************************************

> =============================================================================
==
            To subscribe to the Hungarian Lobby, send the command:

                           subscribe hl

           in the body of a message to "".  

             Back issues are available on the WWW at URL
                 <http://mineral.umd.edu/hl/archive/>; 
    or for anonymous FTP from mineral.umd.edu , in pub/hl/archive/vNN.nMMM 
     (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number).
               <ftp://mineral.umd.edu/pub/hl/archive/>

> =============================================================================
==

Kedves Olvasok!

Lenne egy kerdesem:

A szamitogepes (sik) grafikaknak ket fo tipusuk van:
1. pontokbol felepulo
2. "object oriented", ahol a kepet matematikai formulakkal leirhato "objektumok
" 
alkotjak. 

Az elsot a magyar szakirodalomban a "bitterkepes", "bitmap", vagy "pontalapu" n
evekkel 
illetik. Keresem az "object oriented" grafika helyes magyar megfelelôjet.

A pontalapu grafika "object oriented" grafikava torteno atalakitasat sok helyen
 
vektorizalasnak nevezik. Nem vagyok matematikus, de gyanitom, hogy a vektorgraf
ika es 
az "object oriented" grafika kozotti atfedes nem teljes, igy a vektorizalas nem
 a 
legmegfelelôbb megnevezese a folyamatnak. Van jobb javaslat?

A valaszokat a cimemre kernem elkuldeni:


Elore is koszonom a segitseget. Udvozlettel: Gruz Agnes

In article >,  > wrote:
>kibokoyao > wrote:
>
 (Roberto Dominguez) wrote:
>>>
>>>  wrote:
>>> : Hi,
>>> :    My name is Scott Bostic and I am doing research on the SMITH FAMILY
>>> : Name. My Mother is a SMITH.
>>> :    My Grandfather is JOHN F.SMITH from the LANCASTER, PA area.
>>> : His Father was FRANK A.SMITH also from LANCASTER.
>>> : I know that my SMITH FAMILY LINE Immigrated to the US in the about 1836
>>> : >From Uberfreck, Germany (now Switzerland).
>>> :    I did a search for SMITHS on the NET and your name came up. If you
>>> : have any information that could help me out in my research, I would
>>> : appreciate hearing from you!
>>> :     In particular I am interested in SMITHS from PA or Oringinally from
>>> : Switzerland.
>>> :     Please Email me.

	Hi my name is John Smith. I am from New York. I done reseach on
	the Smiths of NY. This is what I found. There sure are a lot
	of us. Maybe we should form a cult. 





>>> 
>> What kind of a fool are you? 
>
>a Very uncommon one, perhaps? :)
>
>Roger
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Persze ha valaki nem kepes egy uzenetet csak egyszer elkuldeni, akkor nem 
varhato, hogy lemond megszokott "kenyelmerol" es postaztatja maganak a 
listakat.

In article >, Tibor Odor > wrote:
>A "keeper of the Hungarian faq" pedig szerintem jobb ha lemond onkent,
>mert azt az inkorrektseget, amit elkovet nem lehet tovabb toleralni.
>Es nem is szabad.

Talan inkabb olvasni kellene mint szidni. Talan el van ott rejve valahol, 
hogyen kel EGY postat kuldeni. :)
Erdekes, hogy pont a leghangosabb "demokratak" nem ertik, hogy valakit nem 
lehet "lemondatni" arrol, hogy informaciot tegyen kozze, es nem lehet 
kenyszeriteni, hogy ha errol ir, irjon arrol is.

>Igy jo lenne, ha tobben osszedugnank a fejunket, pl. Saghi-Szabo Gotthard,
>Joseph Toth, en, es meg akinek kedve van, es megcsinalnank az uj 
>magyar.faq-t, esetleg automatizalva.

Nagyszeru! Egy lepes elore. Csak remelem, hogy az automatizalas nem megegy 
benyomott listat jelent.

>Odor Tibor
>
SzP.



--------------------------------------
Peter Szaszvari
http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm
--------------------------------------

Irhatsz akar magyarul, either in English :-) (just don't use Hunglish ;-().

A friss informacio az ide "Green Card" (az amerikai bevandorlo-vizum) 
lotto szabalyairol megtalalhato: <http://hix.mit.edu/cgi-bin/ekezet.no/textonly
/
hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/VisaLottery_96.txt> (a kurtitott URL
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/VisaLottery_96.txt>; is 
mukodik momentan, bar a fenntarto szerint nem tamogatott a directory 
ilyen formaban valo hasznalata). Bovebb informacio elerheto a alt.visa.us 
es misc.immigration.usa csoportokban, amiknek FAQ-ja a szokasos Usenet 
archivokon kivul a <http://www.jagunet.com/~mahesh/immigration.html>; es 
<http://www.immigration.com>; cimeken is olvashato.

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
# Wallace Sayre said, "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter
# form of politics, because the stakes are so low."  He didn't know
# Usenet: welcome to the next level.           (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)

I would like to visit Hungary this year, and would like to know if there
is an annual festival of tanchaz (dancehouse) music.  Hungaroton has
released compilation recordings of a tanchaz festival yearly.

I would appreciate any information.

If you responded to the previous message titled "Dancehouse festival", my
appologies, but I now have a new e-mail address.

Thanks!

Paul Vargo

 (Red. de Eventoj) wrote:
>
> Enhavo de EVENTOJ, numero 2/januaro - 1996
> ==========================================

   ... multo ellasita ...

>
> - l'alpa kanguruo: ne estas unu sed du!
>     Denove  kunfandig^as  E-gazetoj:  c^i  foje  el  "Voko  el  Stirio" kaj
>     "l'kanguruo"  ig^as:  l'  alpa  kanguruo  -  komuna organo de svisa kaj
>     austra E-junularoj!

    ... multo ellasita...

>
*************************************************************************
>       EVENTOJ estas la plej ofta Esperanto-informilo, aperas dusemajne.
>                   Per demandoj kontaktu: 
> *************************************************************************


 (1)  Tre placxas al mi renkonti EVENTOJ-n cxiloke!  Bonvenon Laszlo!

 (2)  Kiel kanguruoj atingis la svisan/auxstran regionon?  Cxu vi hazarde 
scias la historion de tiu gazetnomo? Cxu semis tion vagabonda auxstralia 
samideano? Cxu gxi saltetis (bv pardoni acxan vortludon) el la cerbo de 
svisa zoologo?

-- George (el fora frosta alasko, kie ne trovigxas kanguruoj, tamen 
proksime al nia flughaveno ekzistas trafiksxildo kiu avertas pri dangxero 
de kanureuoj sur la sxoseo...)


-- 
"Sed la kulturo de la esperantistoj emfazas similecojn inter cxiuj homoj. 
Gxi bazigxas sur universalajxoj:amo, pacemo, mortotimo, malsato kaj sato, 
aspirado, morala sento, amoro -- unuvorte, sur la komuna homeco."
                           Vilcxjo Auxld, "La Fenomeno Esperanto"

There are some discrepancies in family records.  In some the family is
Austrian, others, Hungarian.  Realizing that the Austrohungarian
Empire would distort origins, I am wondering if the name Sencer is of
Hundarian origin.

Any opinions? 

Thanks.

David Sencer
Atlanta, GA USA

The subject of  the so- called "political correctness" pops ups from time to
time.
An uninitiated and  innocent person is overwhelmed when is accused 
by a rightous guardian of P.C. of  having done or communicated something
contrary to their beliefs and interests.

There is nothing new about political correctness. It is just  another term
for some sort of authority deciding what is acceptable to think and what is not
.

It has been practiced by dictators, religious leaders, crusading newspaper
editors, petty tyrants, and  wild eyed and narrow minded minions of smarter
self serving leaders, since humans have lived in groups larger than families.  

It is by no means limited to any particular political group.  It must be
identified for exactly
 what it is : It is simply an attempt to silence opposition through
intimidation. 

                                                                            
   Mark

"B.VAN LITH" > wrote:

>According to all objective viewers (I'm NOT an ajax-fan) The 
>Ferenc.supporters (only the one's who did all this ofcourse) are a big 
>disgrace to soccer all around the world......

>PEOPLE WHO ATTEND SOCER MATCHES AND DON'T SUPPORT THERE TEAM BUT OFFEND 
>THE OTHER TEAM AREN'T REALLY SUPPORTERS ...ARE THEY ?
>(sorry for the shouting part)

>Bart

Dear Bart & everyone not ignoring this thread!

First of all, EMFJI but I felt I had to post it.
Then, please note that I'm Jewish and living in Hungary. Here is my
opinion about this Ajax-Ferencvaros booing story:

I really highly appreciated Bart's opinion (above). All through the
centuries we Jews have learned how dangerous it is to generalize.
However the Fradi (short for Ferencvaros) fans are mostly known of
their racism, even neonazism in Hungary,  I say we shouldn't
generalize. The leader of the official Ferencvaros Fan Club has told
to Hungarian newspapers that they had pictures of Real Madrid
supporters flying neonazi colors.
In other words, there are racist and non-racist Fradi fans. Moreover,
each team (even Dutch ones) might have a few racist fans. But to
generalize ALL Fradi supporters because of some idiots is nearly as
dangerous as being racist since generalizing is the first step to
racism. Ever noticed the racist say: "THE Jews..."? That is why I
loved so much Bart saying: "Ferenc.supporters (only the one's who did
all this ofcourse) are a big disgrace"

Please either send your thoughts in email or keep on posting in this
thread on the topic. Thanx in advance:
Peter

------------------------
Peter Kaszas
Budapest, Hungary, Europe, Earth, Milky Way
"Must we find a solution? Can't we just enjoy the problem for a
while?!"
------------------------

"B.VAN LITH" > wrote:

>According to all objective viewers (I'm NOT an ajax-fan) The 
>Ferenc.supporters (only the one's who did all this ofcourse) are a big 
>disgrace to soccer all around the world......

>PEOPLE WHO ATTEND SOCER MATCHES AND DON'T SUPPORT THERE TEAM BUT OFFEND 
>THE OTHER TEAM AREN'T REALLY SUPPORTERS ...ARE THEY ?
>(sorry for the shouting part)

>Bart

Dear Bart & everyone not ignoring this thread!

First of all, EMFJI but I felt I had to post it.
Then, please note that I'm Jewish and living in Hungary. Here is my
opinion about this Ajax-Ferencvaros booing story:

I really highly appreciated Bart's opinion (above). All through the
centuries we Jews have learned how dangerous it is to generalize.
However the Fradi (short for Ferencvaros) fans are mostly known of
their racism, even neonazism in Hungary,  I say we shouldn't
generalize. The leader of the official Ferencvaros Fan Club has told
to Hungarian newspapers that they had pictures of Real Madrid
supporters flying neonazi colors.
In other words, there are racist and non-racist Fradi fans. Moreover,
each team (even Dutch ones) might have a few racist fans. But to
generalize ALL Fradi supporters because of some idiots is nearly as
dangerous as being racist since generalizing is the first step to
racism. Ever noticed the racist say: "THE Jews..."? That is why I
loved so much Bart saying: "Ferenc.supporters (only the one's who did
all this ofcourse) are a big disgrace"

Please either send your thoughts in email or keep on posting in this
thread on the topic. Thanx in advance:
Peter

------------------------
Peter Kaszas
Budapest, Hungary, Europe, Earth, Milky Way
"Must we find a solution? Can't we just enjoy the problem for a
while?!"
------------------------

Subject: SCM atszervezes - keeper of Hungarian faq figyelmebe
on 9 Feb 1996 04:25:32 wrote:

>A SCM atszervezesevel kapcsolatban olyan javaslatokra szavazok, melyek minden
>listat egy ujonan letesitendo soc.culture.magyar.lista -ra iranyitananak
>(barmilyen
>nev alatt) - meghagyvan a soc.culture.magyar -t egyeni bekuldesekre. Nyilvan
>senki nem kivanja korlatozni barmely lista jogat hogy az www hypertext
>megjelenites-
>hez jusson a USENET-en, de az elkulonites mindenkeppen indokolt.

Csatlakozom Joseph Toth javaslatahoz.  Ezzel elkerulheto lesz minden 
alkalommal szavazasok tartasa ha uj lista keletkezik. Es elkerulhetjuk, 
hogy esetleg egyes listak letesiteset en szavazzanak meg.

A soc.culture.hungarian.list nev szerintem zavaro lenne, mivel a
soc.culture.magyar nev elorelathatolag nem fog valtozni, megha 
Fekete Zoltan belekekul, akkor sem.

A "keeper of the Hungarian faq" pedig szerintem jobb ha lemond onkent,
mert azt az inkorrektseget, amit elkovet nem lehet tovabb toleralni.
Es nem is szabad.

Igy jo lenne, ha tobben osszedugnank a fejunket, pl. Saghi-Szabo Gotthard,
Joseph Toth, en, es meg akinek kedve van, es megcsinalnank az uj 
magyar.faq-t, esetleg automatizalva.

Odor Tibor

Subject: SCM atszervezes - keeper of Hungarian faq figyelmebe
on 9 Feb 1996 04:25:32 wrote:

>A SCM atszervezesevel kapcsolatban olyan javaslatokra szavazok, melyek minden
>listat egy ujonan letesitendo soc.culture.magyar.lista -ra iranyitananak
>(barmilyen
>nev alatt) - meghagyvan a soc.culture.magyar -t egyeni bekuldesekre. Nyilvan
>senki nem kivanja korlatozni barmely lista jogat hogy az www hypertext
>megjelenites-
>hez jusson a USENET-en, de az elkulonites mindenkeppen indokolt.

Csatlakozom Joseph Toth javaslatahoz.  Ezzel elkerulheto lesz minden 
alkalommal szavazasok tartasa ha uj lista keletkezik. Es elkerulhetjuk, 
hogy esetleg egyes listak letesiteset en szavazzanak meg.

A soc.culture.hungarian.list nev szerintem zavaro lenne, mivel a
soc.culture.magyar nev elorelathatolag nem fog valtozni, megha 
Fekete Zoltan belekekul, akkor sem.

A "keeper of the Hungarian faq" pedig szerintem jobb ha lemond onkent,
mert azt az inkorrektseget, amit elkovet nem lehet tovabb toleralni.
Es nem is szabad.

Igy jo lenne, ha tobben osszedugnank a fejunket, pl. Saghi-Szabo Gotthard,
Joseph Toth, en, es meg akinek kedve van, es megcsinalnank az uj 
magyar.faq-t, esetleg automatizalva.

Odor Tibor