In article >,
Sorin Tuluca  > wrote:

>Tocmai ma chinuiam sa gasesc o metoda pentru a posta acest document 
>in toata maretia lui, cind iata un altul a fost mai Roman decit mine.

What's the point in posting Romanian language article in s.c.m.?
Could we stay with English or Hungarian there?
Of course, the Hungarians should also not post Hungarian language
articles in s.c.r., but I haven't seen any so far.

Joe

In article >,  <B. Banffy> wrote:

>I want to add that this infamous piece was discussed by some 
>>"Onorabil" Dorman, Congressman , in House of Representatives dintr-un 
>"honourable" Dorman, Congresman, in the House of Representatives, led by

I just want to remind those who make a big hay about Congressman
DorNan's piece that he is running for the Republican nomination for
President.  Need I say more?  Well, I say anyway ...

That means that he will say anything to any group to collect some extra
potential votes when it comes to that.  I am pretty sure, if the
Romanians approached him, he would say to them also what they want to
hear.  In other words, don't take the wole thing too seriously.
It would be forgotten the moment the elections are over. 

Joe

In article > T. Kocsis > w
rites:
[speaking of internationalism]
|>And it is not because the commies said something that
|>it is always wrong.
|For paralell example think of it: try to explain a jewish
|holocaust survivor that nazism not so bad thing at all,
|it has some very interesting, positive aspect as well.

Non sequitur. I say one thing that dictatorship X said, you say the whole
ideology (-ism) at the base of dictatorship Y. 
-- Olivier

In >  () writes:

>In article >,
>Sorin Tuluca  > wrote:
>
>>Tocmai ma chinuiam sa gasesc o metoda pentru a posta acest document 
>>in toata maretia lui, cind iata un altul a fost mai Roman decit mine.
>
>What's the point in posting Romanian language article in s.c.m.?
>Could we stay with English or Hungarian there?
>Of course, the Hungarians should also not post Hungarian language
>articles in s.c.r., but I haven't seen any so far.
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You haven't been looking hard enough.

Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

Following was an anonymous fake  mail in soc.culture.kurdish, as a turkish
student I am asking other people of the world as brothers and sisters:

What can we do against such a brainwashed hateful organization? Our land
needs peace, their kids need education. But PKK kills teachers, burns
schools.

What can Turkish government do? I want to emphasize that it is so difficult
to deal with the people of such fascist ideas. 

What can we do against these brains who still support a terrorist organization?
Can we still educate them? Or should we keep fighting against their hit-runs?
They are our brothers..

Please share your opinions in soc.culture.turkish if you want. If don't,
just ignore this attempt to inform the world and delete my post..

a student who wants a global peace and green..
gokturk..

The mail was as follows :
------------------------------

In article >, Justice wrote:

| The PKK and the Kurdish people are kicking some cowardish Turkish butt 
| really hard! The Turkish army "operations" -like these crackpots have 
| ever seen a map or something!- are a disaster. No wonder. Turks have a 
| long history of defeats and disasters over the centuries. In their 
| confrontation with the christian armies under the leadership of the king 
| of Hungary the sultan said after the battle:
| 
| "May Allah never give me such a victory".
| 
| And Allah granted the wish of the poor idiot and gave the Turks no 
| victories ever since! Dumb, dumb, dumb sultan. Lesson: Turks, be carefull 
| what you wish for, you may get it.
| 
| And like I say:
| 
| Justice will be done. The day is coming. Turks will pay a heavy price for 
| their crimes.
| 
| Democratic people all over the world and the US support the noble cause 
| of the Kurdish people. Turks are the terrorists, not the democratic 
| people of Kurdistan.
| 
| JUSTICE




---------------- end of mail --------------(sender address was unresolvable)

-- 
Mehmet Gokturk
The George Washington University, Department of EECS
E-Mail : 
Phone  : (703) 729-7281
http://www.seas.gwu.edu/student/gokturk/.

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

---------------------------------1936498018571
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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THE main thing is, from the point of you of peace in East Central
Europe, that the government of Hungary today and the political parties
of Hungary today are not revisinists and do not demand such nonsense
as the independence of Transylvania, which is obviously the first step
towards the unification of Hungary and Transylvania.What is important,
however, is that the government of Romania respect the individual and
collective rights of Hungarians living within the borders of Romania.
It is hoped that the governments of Hungary and Romania soon will sign
a fundamental treaty concerning such rights.


---------------------------------1936498018571
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain

From:  (Constantin Donea)
Reply-To: 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian,soc.culture.magyar
Subject: Re: Hungarian revisionism
Date: 24 May 1995 17:03:21 GMT
Organization: Ecole Normale Superieure de Lyon, France
Message-ID: >
References: >


That is what fuels PRM and PUNR in Romania. Those who refuse to admit
the existence of the Hungarian revisionism are no way better than
those who tend to overestimate it.

Constantin Donea


---------------------------------1936498018571--

Már megint tévéztem, a fene enné meg... 8-| 

Valamelyik német csatorna egy éjszakai riportmüsorát
lattam, amiben a kakasviadal elleni harc részsikereiröl 
számoltak be -- hangsúlyozva azért, hogy még vannak
problémak..
Szóval öröm volt látni Oklahoma után pár héttel, ahogy
állig felfegyverzett titkosügynökök lerohanják a titkos
kakasviadalt, ahogy az a sok öreg, kövér, megszeppent
mexikói ott hasal tarkóra tett kézzel a csirkeszarban,
miközben géppisztolyos kommandósok rémülten szalad-
gáló harci kakasokkal kergetöznek. Folyik a corpus de-
licti begyüjtése, az állatkínzás ellen a társadalomnak
szigorúan fel kell lépnie... a szegény kakasokat, amelye-
ket egyébként fejedelmi körülmények között nevelik és
tartják, a kommandósok egyesével kis szövetzacskókba
gyömöszölik, bevágják a furgon hátuljába, aztán irány
az állatkórház. Humánum über alles: a kakasokba valami
kék löttyöt nyom az állatorvos, amitöl humánus körül-
mények között feldobják a talpukat, bizony húsz percen
belül... ami azért achievment, ugyebár. Egy ilyen elalta-
tásnak magunk is szemtanúi lehetünk. Azt hittem ilyen
ilyet csak rajzfilmben látni: szegény, a szállitás miatt
eléggé csapzott kakasunk dülöngél jobbra-balra, mint egy
részeg, aztán hirtelen peckesen kihúzza magát, még egy
nagyot kukorékol, a vége már hörgésbe fullad, majd kato-
násan feszes tartással pofára esik, oszt' annyi..
Na most ehhez képest mutattak kakasviadalokat is....
A küzdelem 20-30 másodpercnél sosem tartott tovább,
de a vesztes kakas gyakorlatilag szemvillanásnyi idö
alatt nyiffant ki az ellenfele sarkantyújára szerelt
tizcentis pengétöl.

Tamás

Hello Constantin,

Constantin Donea ) writes:
<earlier quotes deleted>
> 
> They call themselves "Hungarian" and talk in Hungarians' name. And I 
> think that asking from the US Congress a resolution on TS is a more
> serious thing than that faked "manifest". Otherwise I think you're right.
> 

Somehow I believe that you would not like it either if the Vatra people
were equated with all Romanians [i.e. take your first sentence and
substitute Romanian(s) for Hungarian(s)]. Unfortunately both of our
nations have misguided individuals whose thoughts and actions can provide
ammunition to anyone willing to spit venom.

regards,

Tamas

Mehmet Gokturk ) wrote:
: What can we do against such a brainwashed hateful organization? Our land
: needs peace,: What can Turkish government do?

Leave Cyprus!


: I want to emphasize that it is so difficult
: to deal with the people of my government who have such fascist ideas. 

: What can we do against these brains who still support a terrorist organizatio
n?
: Can we still educate them? Or should we keep fighting against their hit-runs?
: They are our brothers and our military.

Edwin David  Latham ) wrote:
: The .44 Magnum Doughnut wrote:
: > > > Case in point, drug offenders are hung within one week after
: > > > conviction in Singapore. No appeals. End result, there is no
: > > > drug problem in Singapore. I suspect that murder convictions
: > > > are dealt with in the same manner.
: >
: > > You just shot yourself in the foot, Doe Nut.
: > >
: > > If there's no drug problem, how can they be killing drug offenders?
: > > If there are drug offenders, how effective is this deterrent?
: >
: > My statement re: Singapore clearly addresses the 'volume of incidence'
: > issue. Naturally, it is not 100% effective. The stupidity of the human
: > race knows no bounds. Case in point, people living in OddstrayliaHell(TM).

: You said "there is no drug problem in Singapore". "No drug problem"
: is not the same as "a reduced drug problem". Backing off?

: How much other crime in Singapore (or Usa for that matter) is committed
: by drug offenders trying to avoid the consequences at law?

You're missing the point, Edwin. Singapore is one off the most oppressive 
regimes in asia. People get executed for all sorts of things there. 
Doughnut gets off on that. 



 --
T. P. Jordan,
Research Assistant,
Networks Research Group,
De Montfort University
Leicester
Email: 
Tel: (0533) 551551 x8099.
 - Eric Cantona is innocent!

In article >,  (Tamas H
amory) writes:
> 
> Hello Constantin,
> 
> Somehow I believe that you would not like it either if the Vatra people
> were equated with all Romanians [i.e. take your first sentence and
> substitute Romanian(s) for Hungarian(s)]. Unfortunately both of our
> nations have misguided individuals whose thoughts and actions can provide
> ammunition to anyone willing to spit venom.
> 
> regards,
> 
> Tamas

Tamas,

You are right and I very much appreciate your point.

Regards,
Constantin Donea

Hermes > wrote:
 
> On 26 May 1995, Miklos Prisznyak wrote:
> 
> > Rumanians were indeed DAMN greedy. They demanded Hungary's territory 
> > AS FAR AS the river Tisa! (including Debrecen!!) 
> > (This claim still regularly pops up in some Vatra Rumanesca-inspired minds.
)
  
> Nah, it ain't greed.  I would call this, 'Preventive Medicine', a potential
> cure for the revisionist delusions of some of your esteemed compatriots.
  
> Who knows, next time Hungary forgets its place in Geography, may be a good
> time for downsizing. 'AS FAR AS the river Tisa' looks good to me !
 
> happy revisionism,
> mark cristian


You are way tooo modest, mark, WAAAYYYY tooo MOODEST !

If these goulash heads continue this rhetoric I would like to
remind them that according to many historians (also check recent
posting by Jeliko) the Romanian population archeological remains 
were found all the way to todays' Hungary-Austrian border.  
The archeological remains are proof that Romanian population existed 
there way before Arpad and its flock made their way to the Land of
Milk and Paprika.
I advise these dopeheads who incite the peacefull minded Romanians
with their view of Hungary as the excited penis ready to expand when
manually rubbed to tune down their grandious dreams and come back to
reality.

Adrian
PS Will be out of the office for a few days, but don't worry will
respond to anyone that comes back with more Prizzy-boy style BULL !

In article > Gotthard S
aghi-Szabo > writes:
>[...] I think Bihar county has never belonged to Transylvania. It can be
>found next to Transylvania [...]

Bihar (Bihor) is the name of the mountains in West-Central Transylvania (what
is seen on a map of Europe "in the middle" inside the East Carpathian curve)
-- Olivier

Subject: Re: repost: Important newsletter...Please read
From: BEGYERO, 
Date: 14 May 1995 12:20:40 -0400
In article > BEGYERO,
 writes:
>Knock, knock.  --    Who is there?
>
>Guess who. You're right, it is your "friendly" neighborhood  Watch
Tower
>people at your door.
>
>I say "Hello". Thank you, but no thank you, and I close the door.

I invite them in, offer coffee and/or tea, discuss the issues
with them they wish to raise and rarely, if ever, do I see them 
again.

After a while a new cycle starts, but as the people themselves
are rarely offensive or abrasive, I have no objection to
their visit, unless I happen to have no time. At least they
do not extol the "virtues" of rampant nationalism or violent
"solutions" to problems .

d.A.

Anonymous wrote:
: I followed with interest a discussion around a letter from a couple U.S.
: congressmen addressed to Eastern Europe countries, and asking to  ensure
: return of Jewish properties.

: Without getting again into discussion, if it was right or not (too many peopl
e
: expressed already too many opinions), I was surprised to see today  following
: news in Wall Street Journal, 5/18/95, page 1:

I think the US government was wrong to insist (if it did) on only the return
of property which had been owned by Jews.

I think it is wrong for the countries of Europe to return only properties
expropriated after German occupiers had been defeated and beaten back,
especially without regard to how those who claimed ownership after
the Nazi occupiers were gone justify such a claim.


: "The U.S. used its U.N. veto for the first time in five years to kill a
: Security Council resolution calling on the Israeli government to rescind its
: expropriation of primarily Arab land in East Jerusalem."

: Does it mean that U.S. is contradicting itself? Or is just a political "doubl
e
: morality"? If yes, why? Who gets the benefits? 

: I would be interested in your opinions, especially from Israel and U.S.: 

: - Do you believe, Israeli government is right?

I think the Israeli Government's policy and actions are wrong.

: - Or is the Security Council (with exception of U.S.) just biased against
: Israel?

Even if it were, that would not mean that they are automatically wrong.


: Please, no flames!!!!

To post to as many groups as you have, especially after the threat to
bombard with e-mail those who do just that is to invite severe flaming.
Posting anonymously may be understandable, but could readily lead
people to doubt your sincerity.

d.A.

 (Janos Szamosfalvi) wrote:
>I don't think the RFD about creating a subgroup for HIX would be 
>as inflammatory as the renaming was.

 You must have missed the initial phase of Gotthard's crusade ;-(!

 << This space is intentionally left blank >>

Constantin Donea ) writes:

> They [a splinter American group] talk in Hungarians' name.
 No, they don't - they assume to, which is a big difference.

 << This space is intentionally left blank >>

Kurds have lived in their region longer than the Turks have even been in 
Anatolia.  I think the Turkish people have let alot of uncivilized men 
and women run their government.  How is it Ankara's place to outlaw 
minority languages, kill Armenians,  and basically behave as most third 
world capitals do.  Turkey isnt a great power and never will be, so it is 
irrelavent if they keep hold of the regions they have no claim to anyway. 
Cyprus, Smyrna, Armenia, Kurdistan, when does it stop.  Maybe Turkey 
wouldnt be as poor as it is today if it would start running itself in a 
respectable manner.  I think the Kurds have every right to rebel.

 (Dan Pop) writes:

>How does your theory explain the existence of Romanian villages in
>Hungary?  Yeah, the Romanians were damn greedy after WWI.

The same way as Transylvania was settled by Rumanians. They migrated into the
Hungarian kingdom because vast areas were devastated by the numerous foreign
invasions Hungary had suffered. 

Rumanians were indeed DAMN greedy. They demanded Hungary's territory 
AS FAR AS the river Tisa! (including Debrecen!!) 
(This claim still regularly pops up in some Vatra Rumanesca-inspired minds.)

Pm

>Dan
-- 
 Pm
>----
 Miklos Prisznyak   (KFKI RMKI Theor. Dep. Budapest, Hungary H-1525 P.O.B 49)
<A HREF="http://sgi30.rmki.kfki.hu/~prisz/prisz.html">My Personal WEB Page </A>

In article >, Sorin Tuluca <s.tuluca@cs
uohio.edu> writes:
>  (Dan Pop) wrote:
>>
>> 
>>        HUNGARIANS IN THE WEST CALL FOR TRANSYLVANIAN SELF-DETERMINATION
>> 
>>                                   [Page: E252]
>> 
> 
> Tocmai ma chinuiam sa gasesc o metoda pentru a posta acest document 
> in toata maretia lui, cind iata un altul a fost mai Roman decit mine.
> Vreau sa adaug ca aceasta infama piesa a fost discutata de un oarecare 
> "Onorabil" Dorman, Congressman , in House of Representatives dintr-un 
> "sincer si nepartinitor" interes de-a rezolva situatia Tiganilor, 
> Romanilor, Germanilor si de ce nu a Ungurilor din Romania.
> 
> "Curat murdar coane' Fanica" ar zice ILC. Acestia domnilor sint
> "simpaticii nostrii adversari de pe scr" niste mite blinde care
> nu vor decit drepturi pentru minoritati nici cum altceva. 
> 
> Pentru cei ce vor sa vada minunatia adresa:
> http://thomas.loc.gov/
> acolo selectati indexul celui de-al 104 lea Congres si din index selectati 
> Romania - apoi minunatia!!
> 
> Nu ma obosesc sa scriu in Engleza cred ca ungurii ce pretind ca nu stiu 
> Romaneste sint niste farsori deci pot citi prea bine mesajul.

Eu stiu romaneste, pentru-ca a fost obligatoriu sa invat. Dar ma bucur ca stiu
inca o limba, ca: sint mai mult cu el. Nu e o demnitate ca nu vorbesti o limba!
Precis ca nu stiu bine romaneste, dar stiu mai bine decit Tu ungureste, deci Te
rog sa nu ma corectezi cu ironie, numai cu bun gind, daca asi face greseli
mari!
Multam!

> 
> Consider ca nu mai merita sa corespondam civilizat cu astfel de oameni.

TOTDEAUNA TREBUIE SA FIM CIVILIZATI, PENTRU-CA SINTEM OAMENI!!!!

> Cred ca ar fi mai bine sa ii ignoram total, sa nu mai raspundem la cine
> a fost primul in Transilvania ci pur si simplu sa spunem:
> 
> E A NOASTRA, DE LUAT NU PREA AVETI CUM CA DATORIA EXTERNA A 
> CIVILIZATEI UNGARII VA VA TRANSFORMA RAPID INTR-UN MEXIC (DAR 
> FARA AMERICANI IN AJUTOR) SI DE NU VA AJUNG DREPTURILE 
> GRANITA E DESCHISA.

Putem sa spunem orice, ca si eu sint convins de pe dreptul meu, ca sint
documenti in lume care ne da noua drept. Eu stiu cine a "construit" Putna,
dar stiu cine a construit (nu stiu cuvintul respectiv...poate ca a infiintat e
mai bun? nu stiu! Iertare...) Nagyvarad (numele romanesc dat dupa sute de ani e
Oradea). Deci chiar sa duca in naiba cine vrea sa dovedeasca cine a fost primul
in Transilvania!!! DAR este o problema! Daca merg acasa pe plaiul natal, atunci
sa nu stau ore la granita. Cine a mai ramas sa aiba ziare si scoli etc. etc.!!!

Sa fie a voastra Transilvania, dar nu biruiti. Lasati sa traiasca!!!
Si voi veti fi mai bogati, si noi!

Granita e deschisa? Nu cred! Na fost nici atuncia cind fartii tai (iarta-ma!)
au tras pe prietenii mei, care au vrut sa fuga dincolo de granita!!!
Acum deja nu mai trag, dar nu cred ca granita chiar asa e deschisa ca intre
tari CIVILIZATE ca Olanda si Belgia de exemplu.


Fiti CALM! Europa si toate tarile din vest ne caca pe noi, daca nu sintem
prieteni! Uite ce se intimpla in Jugoslavia!!!!